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[Music]

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congratulations youtube

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you did it you wore me down and you

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sucked me back in

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i have too many subscribers here just to

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walk away entirely

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especially with no alternative that

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truly stacks up

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and so many copycat channels uploading

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my shows for me anyway

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but we can't forget the thc's account

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here is on thin ice

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and so the youtube version of the show

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has to be prefaced with this little psa

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only to say that episodes that contain

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the kinds of themes that have been

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regularly banned on youtube

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will not appear here and even with that

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precaution there's already enough in the

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archive to get us removed

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so remember that the higher side chats

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could be banned or put in time out again

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at any time and i won't be able to tell

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you guys about it

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so if you feel like it's been too long

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since you've heard from me here on this

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digital dystopian draconian data mining

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monster of a police state seeking

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platform

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your first step should be to check the

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highersidechats.com for the latest shows

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brace yourself because you're about to

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dive into another free first hour

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episode of the higher side chats

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and we just want to let you know that

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whether you're looking for a companion

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through your paranoid insomnia

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entertaining yourself through one of

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life's mundane activities

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or trying to ward off the internal

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screams of all those sad smothered souls

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around

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the office thc is here and you should

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know that every episode of the higher

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side chats has an entire second

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hour for plus members sign up at the

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highersidechats.com

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and you'll get years of plus show

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archives lifetime forum access

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a special invite to greg carlwood's

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monthly joint sessions

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mp3s of thc music bonus episodes

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tour videos and 10 off t-shirts

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grinders and whatever else ends up in

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the higher side store it's eight dollars

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a month that you won't miss

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so become a plus member and treat

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yourself in these troubled times

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always action-packed and commercial-free

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which means you'll unfortunately

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in the 1930s president franklin delano

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roosevelt addressed the nation through a

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series of radio broadcasts known as the

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fireside

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chats his aim was to reassure the common

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man that our society would recover from

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its troubled times

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well we're far from 1930 and i deal with

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a different kind of fire

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for a new era of worldly frustration we

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offer a fresh conversation

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i'm greg carlwood and these are the

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higher side chats

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here we go higher side chatters how the

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hell are you from sunny san diego i'm

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greg carlwood trying to bring relief to

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a world on fire

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one pail of podcasting water at a time

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and while we've all heard the old quote

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that we cannot solve our problems with

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the same thinking we used to create them

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i wish we were better at keeping it in

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mind so often we find ourselves

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re-treading the same

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intellectual ground from medical science

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to political strategy

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and then one wonders why we have this

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heavy sense of stuckness

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the same problems and patterns resurface

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but we rarely seem to graduate from them

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and often it's because we've yet to

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truly go back to the fundamentals and

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approach

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topics with fresh eyes and a new way of

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thinking

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well it's as true for bigfoot as it is

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for fiat currency and luckily our guests

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today

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are excellent researchers of at least

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one of those things

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and for me it is time we evolve our

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thinking on bigfoot no pun

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intended and while some might wonder why

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a bigfoot show is the offering on the

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table

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given everything 2020 has thrown at us

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i would argue that most of us have dug

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in firmly on our opinions at this point

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so what more do we need to know and if

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our mental attention is currency

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let's not make the rich any richer

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besides our good friend and podcast

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world ally

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joshua cutchen has a new book out and so

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we do what we do

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and talk about it it's called where the

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footprints

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end high strangeness and the bigfoot

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phenomenon volume

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1 folklore and today josh is joined by

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his co-author for this latest book

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fellow podcaster and paranormal

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enthusiast timothy renner

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tim also did the illustrations for where

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the footprints end and has written

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several books of his own

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including beyond the seventh gate

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bigfoot in pennsylvania

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bigfoot west coast wildman and don't

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look behind you

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his podcast is called strange familiars

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and it's great to have him here as well

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let's dive into it the proverbial

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one-two punch of paranormal podcast

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guests the cryptozoology course

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correctors making bigfoot weird again

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josh and tim welcome to the higher side

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pleasure always a highlight whenever i

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release a book to catch up

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kind of you to say it is really great to

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have you back obviously i love your

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other books we've had some

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great conversations about them in

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previous shows and tim it is a pleasure

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to have you here as well

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and so that intro was trying to make the

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point that in a lot of these areas

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the cultural conversation tends to go in

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circles because with certain things

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like the paranormal side effects

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consciousness and of course

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cryptozoology

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humans tend to try and twist the subject

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until it

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halfway fits into their world view

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rather than

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adapting their worldview and paradigm to

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fit new information

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and it seems like that was the major

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theme here kind of the catalyst for

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writing this book

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let's take the weirdest craziest bigfoot

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accounts and try to examine this mystery

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from that

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wider perspective rather than

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selectively editing down the cases until

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they fit what we want bigfoot to be

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would you say that was kind of the

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inspiration here fellas

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pretty much yeah yeah it was taking a

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kind of a holistic look at the

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phenomenon and you know when i got into

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it

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people's minds bigfoot

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is some undiscovered animal and that's

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the approach i took when i got into it

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mostly i mean i was aware from the start

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that there was weird stuff

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associated with bigfoot sightings ufos

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and

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that tai was given

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by your sort of flesh and blood

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cryptozoologist was that the

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weird stuff with bigfoot it rarely ever

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happens it's really a rarity

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that this stuff happens and then when

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you start to scratch

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at it a little bit you find very quickly

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that

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it's not a rarity at all this weird

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stuff pops up around bigfoot

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and josh what do you think what would

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you say is the elevator pitch or the

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mission statement you had going into

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this thing

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i actually was not at all looking

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into writing another book when tim

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approached me about this but

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when he made the pitch i was like okay

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because i just had twins where i was

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getting ready to have twins here

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and i just knew that i wouldn't have

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enough time so i cranked it out and i

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think

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i have a very dear friend named greg

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bishop who hates for me to use this as a

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point of comparison because

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of how great jacques valet is but i

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think sort of the best way to sort of

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give people an idea of how this book

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sits

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vis-a-vis the big phenomena is to

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compare it to jacques villa's passport

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to magonia and the sort of position

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that passport to magonia occupies in the

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ufo discourse

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it's finally looking at folklore through

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an unironic lens and saying well

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how does this resonate with a lot of

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these modern day sightings so that's not

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really a comparison in terms of quality

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to valet because i mean

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heaven knows he's such an eloquent

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writer and an excellent thinker but in

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terms of

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the goal of this book has

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i think is really in sort of trying to

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reframe some of these bigfoot phenomena

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in other disciplines that we

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normally would not consider because you

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know so much of the community is really

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obsessed with the idea that bigfoot is a

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flesh and blood

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hominid yes

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a worthy goal a passport to magonia

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moment for bigfoot as it were

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definitely a worthy goal and i guess i

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would ask you guys

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what you think it is that has kept this

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moment from happening

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sooner is it just humans getting in our

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own way again i mean how does this

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kind of stuff affect the cryptozoology

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community

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in particular same as the ufology

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community i'd assume there's a lot of

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parallels but

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why hasn't this community caught up

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i think that there is such an earnest

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desire to be acknowledged by the

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scientific community that

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it becomes more prudent to throw out

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these high strange

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outliers than it is to actually try to

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engage with them i mean bigfoot is a

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hard enough cell

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as a giant undiscovered monkey and you

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know ufos are a hard enough cell as

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being

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spacecraft from other planets you know

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you can only compound

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the difficulty of trying to get people

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to engage with these topics by saying

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yeah and they also disappear and or you

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know

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there's a lot of stuff in the ufo

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contact experience that looks like

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spirit contact

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people really start to roll their eyes

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and i really think it's from this real

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desire to sit at quote unquote the big

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kids table

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of science i think that really is what

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motivates a lot of people but you know

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for me and i think i speak for tim in

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this regard too

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it really is disingenuous to say we need

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to believe witnesses

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and then toss out oh well the witness

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also said that the bigfoot was holding a

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glowing orb or something along those

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lines

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if you believe witnesses you believe

284
00:09:31,590 --> 00:09:28,800
witness is full stop yeah

285
00:09:33,269 --> 00:09:31,600
i think that's a great point and tim i

286
00:09:35,670 --> 00:09:33,279
know you're out in pennsylvania

287
00:09:37,350 --> 00:09:35,680
and you've written about weird stuff in

288
00:09:40,070 --> 00:09:37,360
that area before

289
00:09:41,910 --> 00:09:40,080
this book relays a pretty wild bigfoot

290
00:09:44,230 --> 00:09:41,920
sighting in the intro that

291
00:09:45,190 --> 00:09:44,240
pretty much checks off most of the weird

292
00:09:48,550 --> 00:09:45,200
boxes and

293
00:09:51,110 --> 00:09:48,560
sort of acts as the quintessential

294
00:09:51,750 --> 00:09:51,120
weird bigfoot experience can you talk to

295
00:09:53,670 --> 00:09:51,760
us about

296
00:09:56,150 --> 00:09:53,680
this case a bit for people who have

297
00:09:58,150 --> 00:09:56,160
maybe been tainted by that selective

298
00:09:59,990 --> 00:09:58,160
editing process researchers have been

299
00:10:02,710 --> 00:10:00,000
serving them up in the past and

300
00:10:04,069 --> 00:10:02,720
maybe aren't aware of how much context

301
00:10:05,509 --> 00:10:04,079
has been left out

302
00:10:07,350 --> 00:10:05,519
when we think about bigfoot

303
00:10:09,990 --> 00:10:07,360
traditionally

304
00:10:11,350 --> 00:10:10,000
yeah well this was when josh and i

305
00:10:13,509 --> 00:10:11,360
started writing the book

306
00:10:16,230 --> 00:10:13,519
we had plenty of meetings back and forth

307
00:10:18,069 --> 00:10:16,240
but i think pretty early on we agreed

308
00:10:19,590 --> 00:10:18,079
if there's one case that's sort of the

309
00:10:21,110 --> 00:10:19,600
best representation

310
00:10:23,110 --> 00:10:21,120
of the kind of stuff we're talking about

311
00:10:24,670 --> 00:10:23,120
it's this case from fayette county

312
00:10:29,190 --> 00:10:24,680
pennsylvania in

313
00:10:29,829 --> 00:10:29,200
1973 and the case begins with a ufo

314
00:10:31,030 --> 00:10:29,839
sighting

315
00:10:31,990 --> 00:10:31,040
a bunch of different witnesses i think

316
00:10:33,030 --> 00:10:32,000
it's something like 10 different

317
00:10:36,069 --> 00:10:33,040
witnesses or something

318
00:10:36,630 --> 00:10:36,079
see a red or orange depending on who you

319
00:10:39,990 --> 00:10:36,640
ask

320
00:10:43,190 --> 00:10:40,000
globe in the sky and this descended into

321
00:10:45,670 --> 00:10:43,200
the farm field of the main witnesses at

322
00:10:47,990 --> 00:10:45,680
parents farm i believe

323
00:10:49,590 --> 00:10:48,000
and he proceeded to get in his truck

324
00:10:50,710 --> 00:10:49,600
with some two neighbor boys and they

325
00:10:53,430 --> 00:10:50,720
went up to

326
00:10:54,949 --> 00:10:53,440
see what happened when this thing

327
00:10:56,470 --> 00:10:54,959
appeared to land

328
00:10:58,310 --> 00:10:56,480
now when they see it on the ground it's

329
00:10:59,030 --> 00:10:58,320
no longer red or orange they describe it

330
00:11:01,750 --> 00:10:59,040
as a white

331
00:11:03,269 --> 00:11:01,760
kind of dome like shape that's either

332
00:11:05,030 --> 00:11:03,279
landed on the ground or hovering just

333
00:11:07,750 --> 00:11:05,040
above it

334
00:11:08,310 --> 00:11:07,760
and they're observing this whatever it

335
00:11:12,630 --> 00:11:08,320
is

336
00:11:15,990 --> 00:11:12,640
object that's glowing

337
00:11:16,310 --> 00:11:16,000
in the field and one of the kids points

338
00:11:19,350 --> 00:11:16,320
out

339
00:11:21,750 --> 00:11:19,360
to the main witness kowalczyk that there

340
00:11:24,310 --> 00:11:21,760
are two creatures coming towards them

341
00:11:25,829 --> 00:11:24,320
and they observe these two bigfoot

342
00:11:26,470 --> 00:11:25,839
creatures that are walking along a fence

343
00:11:28,710 --> 00:11:26,480
line

344
00:11:29,910 --> 00:11:28,720
their eyes are glowing i think green i

345
00:11:31,269 --> 00:11:29,920
deal with so many different color

346
00:11:33,269 --> 00:11:31,279
glowing eyes in the big book

347
00:11:34,630 --> 00:11:33,279
i sometimes forget which case has which

348
00:11:37,509 --> 00:11:34,640
color

349
00:11:39,350 --> 00:11:37,519
and they're making these strange kind of

350
00:11:42,550 --> 00:11:39,360
bellowing utterances

351
00:11:44,790 --> 00:11:42,560
and sounds like a crying baby i believe

352
00:11:46,790 --> 00:11:44,800
and there's a smell associated with them

353
00:11:47,990 --> 00:11:46,800
that they said sounded like i believe it

354
00:11:49,750 --> 00:11:48,000
was like burning

355
00:11:51,030 --> 00:11:49,760
rather it smelled like burning tar or

356
00:11:54,069 --> 00:11:51,040
something some kind of bed

357
00:11:57,829 --> 00:11:54,079
yeah burning rubber i think yeah

358
00:11:59,829 --> 00:11:57,839
and he proceeded to shoot them

359
00:12:02,230 --> 00:11:59,839
with no reaction at least the first time

360
00:12:04,949 --> 00:12:02,240
he shot him he shot a tracer

361
00:12:06,069 --> 00:12:04,959
above their head or alongside their head

362
00:12:07,350 --> 00:12:06,079
and one creature

363
00:12:09,350 --> 00:12:07,360
he said it reached out as if he was

364
00:12:10,949 --> 00:12:09,360
trying to grab the tracer

365
00:12:12,150 --> 00:12:10,959
and then he actually shot the creature

366
00:12:13,590 --> 00:12:12,160
when they considered to proceed to him

367
00:12:14,710 --> 00:12:13,600
he said he was sure he hid it

368
00:12:16,550 --> 00:12:14,720
but he said it sounded like it was

369
00:12:18,230 --> 00:12:16,560
firing into a pond so it has this kind

370
00:12:19,670 --> 00:12:18,240
of watery sound

371
00:12:21,509 --> 00:12:19,680
that he fired into it otherwise it

372
00:12:23,670 --> 00:12:21,519
didn't react

373
00:12:24,629 --> 00:12:23,680
they got out of there called the police

374
00:12:27,190 --> 00:12:24,639
the police called

375
00:12:27,670 --> 00:12:27,200
an investigator named stan gordon who is

376
00:12:29,990 --> 00:12:27,680
still

377
00:12:31,590 --> 00:12:30,000
investigating today a wonderful

378
00:12:34,710 --> 00:12:31,600
investigator from pennsylvania

379
00:12:35,590 --> 00:12:34,720
and during this time in 1973 and 74 they

380
00:12:37,430 --> 00:12:35,600
were having a

381
00:12:39,670 --> 00:12:37,440
really big flap of ufo and bigfoot

382
00:12:42,310 --> 00:12:39,680
sightings all across pennsylvania

383
00:12:43,990 --> 00:12:42,320
and stan was the main investigator he'd

384
00:12:45,430 --> 00:12:44,000
given his name to the police so when the

385
00:12:47,990 --> 00:12:45,440
police got these strange

386
00:12:50,310 --> 00:12:48,000
calls or cases thrown into them they'd

387
00:12:52,389 --> 00:12:50,320
often call stan

388
00:12:54,550 --> 00:12:52,399
i think this all happened about 10 at

389
00:12:56,069 --> 00:12:54,560
night and stan and his investigation

390
00:12:58,389 --> 00:12:56,079
team were out there

391
00:12:59,750 --> 00:12:58,399
by one in the morning the witness had

392
00:13:01,350 --> 00:12:59,760
proceeded back to the location with the

393
00:13:03,269 --> 00:13:01,360
police officer

394
00:13:04,389 --> 00:13:03,279
when he fired into the creature i think

395
00:13:05,910 --> 00:13:04,399
he said it bellowed and

396
00:13:07,590 --> 00:13:05,920
that dome-like shape disappeared he said

397
00:13:08,550 --> 00:13:07,600
it didn't fly away didn't take off into

398
00:13:10,949 --> 00:13:08,560
the sky it just

399
00:13:13,829 --> 00:13:10,959
blinked out and disappeared when the

400
00:13:16,470 --> 00:13:13,839
policeman went back with the witness

401
00:13:18,150 --> 00:13:16,480
there was a ring glowing on the ground

402
00:13:19,829 --> 00:13:18,160
where this object had been hovering or

403
00:13:20,870 --> 00:13:19,839
where it was landed

404
00:13:22,870 --> 00:13:20,880
that was bright enough to read a

405
00:13:25,190 --> 00:13:22,880
newspaper by the policeman said

406
00:13:26,069 --> 00:13:25,200
so they're very very bright still uh

407
00:13:28,310 --> 00:13:26,079
glowing there

408
00:13:29,990 --> 00:13:28,320
they saw the creatures again kowalczyk

409
00:13:31,430 --> 00:13:30,000
fired again this time the creature did

410
00:13:33,269 --> 00:13:31,440
react and kind of charged towards them

411
00:13:36,150 --> 00:13:33,279
but they beat it out of there

412
00:13:37,430 --> 00:13:36,160
so stan gordon's on the scene by 1 am

413
00:13:38,870 --> 00:13:37,440
the following morning

414
00:13:41,110 --> 00:13:38,880
they go back to the location with the

415
00:13:44,389 --> 00:13:41,120
witness the witness has this

416
00:13:45,670 --> 00:13:44,399
event happen where he starts howling and

417
00:13:48,550 --> 00:13:45,680
roaring and sort of

418
00:13:50,069 --> 00:13:48,560
making these inhuman sounds and he's

419
00:13:52,389 --> 00:13:50,079
running around like a madman

420
00:13:53,350 --> 00:13:52,399
around the field and his own father said

421
00:13:55,189 --> 00:13:53,360
he thought

422
00:13:57,110 --> 00:13:55,199
that his son had been possessed by one

423
00:13:58,790 --> 00:13:57,120
of the bigfoot creatures the way he was

424
00:14:00,710 --> 00:13:58,800
acting

425
00:14:02,069 --> 00:14:00,720
he eventually passes out they help him

426
00:14:05,030 --> 00:14:02,079
from the field

427
00:14:05,670 --> 00:14:05,040
he comes to and one of the most

428
00:14:06,710 --> 00:14:05,680
interesting things

429
00:14:08,870 --> 00:14:06,720
he comes to and they hand him his

430
00:14:10,710 --> 00:14:08,880
glasses and he says i don't need those

431
00:14:13,189 --> 00:14:10,720
like he doesn't recognize his own

432
00:14:15,030 --> 00:14:13,199
glasses and says he doesn't need them

433
00:14:16,710 --> 00:14:15,040
but when he was out in this sort of

434
00:14:17,670 --> 00:14:16,720
altered state or this fugue state or

435
00:14:20,550 --> 00:14:17,680
whatever he was in

436
00:14:22,550 --> 00:14:20,560
he had a ufo contact e-like vision of a

437
00:14:23,670 --> 00:14:22,560
grim reaper type figure coming to him

438
00:14:25,269 --> 00:14:23,680
and telling him you know the world's

439
00:14:26,069 --> 00:14:25,279
going to end unless mankind straightens

440
00:14:27,430 --> 00:14:26,079
out and

441
00:14:29,430 --> 00:14:27,440
there's a kind of thing you've heard

442
00:14:32,870 --> 00:14:29,440
from ufo contactees

443
00:14:34,550 --> 00:14:32,880
again and again his whole life is

444
00:14:35,910 --> 00:14:34,560
completely changed by this he was not a

445
00:14:38,949 --> 00:14:35,920
believer in anything

446
00:14:40,629 --> 00:14:38,959
unusual or paranormal before this and

447
00:14:41,910 --> 00:14:40,639
after this he experiences different side

448
00:14:44,069 --> 00:14:41,920
effects and

449
00:14:46,550 --> 00:14:44,079
has these predictions of the future that

450
00:14:49,430 --> 00:14:46,560
come to him that seem to be coming true

451
00:14:51,590 --> 00:14:49,440
and a few weeks after the event he's

452
00:14:54,710 --> 00:14:51,600
visited by these two figures one of them

453
00:14:58,150 --> 00:14:54,720
is dressed like an air force officer

454
00:14:59,910 --> 00:14:58,160
another's in a suit and they

455
00:15:01,590 --> 00:14:59,920
either outright claim or at least

456
00:15:05,110 --> 00:15:01,600
suggest that

457
00:15:07,030 --> 00:15:05,120
they are there on behest of stan gordon

458
00:15:08,629 --> 00:15:07,040
they show the witness some pictures he

459
00:15:10,629 --> 00:15:08,639
said they showed him pictures of bigfoot

460
00:15:12,310 --> 00:15:10,639
creatures and of ufos

461
00:15:13,750 --> 00:15:12,320
and they asked him if he would be

462
00:15:17,350 --> 00:15:13,760
willing to be hypnotized

463
00:15:19,110 --> 00:15:17,360
they hypnotize him and years go by

464
00:15:20,790 --> 00:15:19,120
some years later stan gordon gets the

465
00:15:21,750 --> 00:15:20,800
idea that i want to hypnotize this

466
00:15:23,189 --> 00:15:21,760
witness and

467
00:15:26,069 --> 00:15:23,199
see if we can get any more information

468
00:15:27,990 --> 00:15:26,079
from him and asked him if he would

469
00:15:29,189 --> 00:15:28,000
submit to hypnosis and he says well you

470
00:15:31,590 --> 00:15:29,199
already hypnotized me

471
00:15:32,230 --> 00:15:31,600
and tells stan the story of these two

472
00:15:34,790 --> 00:15:32,240
strange

473
00:15:35,509 --> 00:15:34,800
figures these men and black like figures

474
00:15:37,590 --> 00:15:35,519
that kind of come

475
00:15:40,150 --> 00:15:37,600
and hypnotize them a few weeks after the

476
00:15:41,590 --> 00:15:40,160
event so

477
00:15:43,749 --> 00:15:41,600
layers and layers and layers of

478
00:15:44,389 --> 00:15:43,759
strangeness all rolled into the single

479
00:15:47,509 --> 00:15:44,399
case

480
00:15:49,030 --> 00:15:47,519
this absolutely fantastic example of the

481
00:15:49,590 --> 00:15:49,040
kind of things we're talking about as

482
00:15:51,670 --> 00:15:49,600
regards

483
00:15:53,269 --> 00:15:51,680
sasquatch yeah what i can't understand

484
00:15:53,990 --> 00:15:53,279
is why all that happened around this

485
00:15:55,269 --> 00:15:54,000
giant monkey

486
00:15:58,310 --> 00:15:55,279
it just doesn't make any sense doesn't

487
00:16:00,629 --> 00:15:58,320
it well that's what i'm thinking and

488
00:16:02,550 --> 00:16:00,639
i'm glad you opened the book with that

489
00:16:02,949 --> 00:16:02,560
and could tell the story here there's so

490
00:16:05,189 --> 00:16:02,959
many

491
00:16:07,670 --> 00:16:05,199
weird details not only does he not need

492
00:16:08,069 --> 00:16:07,680
his glasses he doesn't recognize them

493
00:16:09,910 --> 00:16:08,079
and

494
00:16:13,030 --> 00:16:09,920
the most interesting thing to me is

495
00:16:15,670 --> 00:16:13,040
those after effects and i'm glad you

496
00:16:16,550 --> 00:16:15,680
highlighted those as well i wonder how

497
00:16:19,030 --> 00:16:16,560
big

498
00:16:19,749 --> 00:16:19,040
the hole in the research is when it

499
00:16:22,470 --> 00:16:19,759
comes to

500
00:16:25,030 --> 00:16:22,480
following up on experiencers later to

501
00:16:27,749 --> 00:16:25,040
see if they did have prophetic dreams or

502
00:16:28,150 --> 00:16:27,759
a possession spell or an mib visit we

503
00:16:29,910 --> 00:16:28,160
don't

504
00:16:31,189 --> 00:16:29,920
typically think of it that way because

505
00:16:33,509 --> 00:16:31,199
oh you had a weird

506
00:16:35,030 --> 00:16:33,519
sighting of an animal but no if this is

507
00:16:37,269 --> 00:16:35,040
a paranormal

508
00:16:39,030 --> 00:16:37,279
cover for something strange because if

509
00:16:39,749 --> 00:16:39,040
we're going to the chocolate thing he

510
00:16:42,150 --> 00:16:39,759
talked about

511
00:16:43,030 --> 00:16:42,160
a lot of ufo things as a projection of

512
00:16:46,150 --> 00:16:43,040
some sorts

513
00:16:47,189 --> 00:16:46,160
so if this is just another skin for some

514
00:16:48,629 --> 00:16:47,199
projection

515
00:16:51,189 --> 00:16:48,639
then you would expect it to have the

516
00:16:53,990 --> 00:16:51,199
same effects later because it really

517
00:16:55,030 --> 00:16:54,000
affects people's consciousness in weird

518
00:16:56,790 --> 00:16:55,040
ways and

519
00:16:58,389 --> 00:16:56,800
i guess i would ask how big do you think

520
00:16:59,910 --> 00:16:58,399
that hole is do you think there's a lot

521
00:17:01,749 --> 00:16:59,920
of after effects

522
00:17:03,189 --> 00:17:01,759
in this field of research that have

523
00:17:04,710 --> 00:17:03,199
probably been missed that need to be

524
00:17:07,909 --> 00:17:04,720
reopened

525
00:17:09,510 --> 00:17:07,919
i think that there are a lot of

526
00:17:10,949 --> 00:17:09,520
peripheral things that happen to a lot

527
00:17:13,189 --> 00:17:10,959
of these bigfoot witnesses especially

528
00:17:14,470 --> 00:17:13,199
habituaters people who have longitudinal

529
00:17:16,870 --> 00:17:14,480
experiences with bigfoot

530
00:17:18,549 --> 00:17:16,880
on or around their property i think that

531
00:17:20,069 --> 00:17:18,559
there's a lot of peripheral phenomena

532
00:17:21,829 --> 00:17:20,079
that get underreported

533
00:17:23,270 --> 00:17:21,839
we're only sort of now starting to see

534
00:17:25,429 --> 00:17:23,280
the ufo

535
00:17:26,470 --> 00:17:25,439
community opening up about the high

536
00:17:28,789 --> 00:17:26,480
strangeness that

537
00:17:30,310 --> 00:17:28,799
surrounds all these ufo sightings now

538
00:17:32,070 --> 00:17:30,320
they're willing to talk about oh yeah

539
00:17:33,350 --> 00:17:32,080
after my experience i had poltergeist

540
00:17:34,710 --> 00:17:33,360
activity in my house or i have these

541
00:17:36,150 --> 00:17:34,720
profound synchronicities stuff that

542
00:17:38,549 --> 00:17:36,160
doesn't really fit

543
00:17:39,909 --> 00:17:38,559
with the extraterrestrial hypothesis and

544
00:17:41,909 --> 00:17:39,919
i think that

545
00:17:43,510 --> 00:17:41,919
the bigfoot community is coming out a

546
00:17:45,830 --> 00:17:43,520
little bit more in favor of

547
00:17:47,909 --> 00:17:45,840
discussing those things i'm reminded of

548
00:17:49,590 --> 00:17:47,919
my good friend mike clelland who

549
00:17:51,430 --> 00:17:49,600
a long time ago said that you know a lot

550
00:17:52,870 --> 00:17:51,440
of nuts and bolts ufo researchers won't

551
00:17:54,070 --> 00:17:52,880
talk about the weird stuff until you get

552
00:17:55,029 --> 00:17:54,080
them you know to the bar after the

553
00:17:56,390 --> 00:17:55,039
conference and then get a couple of

554
00:17:58,150 --> 00:17:56,400
drinks in them and then you

555
00:18:00,230 --> 00:17:58,160
start to hear these weird stories these

556
00:18:02,150 --> 00:18:00,240
stories that just seem like they're more

557
00:18:02,390 --> 00:18:02,160
super normal or supernatural than they

558
00:18:04,549 --> 00:18:02,400
are

559
00:18:05,909 --> 00:18:04,559
you know extraterrestrial and the

560
00:18:07,669 --> 00:18:05,919
similar thing is happening

561
00:18:09,430 --> 00:18:07,679
in the bigfoot community from what i

562
00:18:10,549 --> 00:18:09,440
understand i think that there was at one

563
00:18:12,549 --> 00:18:10,559
point

564
00:18:15,110 --> 00:18:12,559
and there probably is still with these

565
00:18:17,430 --> 00:18:15,120
larger bigfoot research organizations

566
00:18:19,190 --> 00:18:17,440
an effort to deliberately suppress a lot

567
00:18:19,909 --> 00:18:19,200
of these strange aspects but i think

568
00:18:21,909 --> 00:18:19,919
that

569
00:18:24,630 --> 00:18:21,919
and tim feel free to confirm or deny

570
00:18:26,549 --> 00:18:24,640
this in your opinion but i think that

571
00:18:28,310 --> 00:18:26,559
the community is becoming much more open

572
00:18:29,669 --> 00:18:28,320
about discussing these strange aspects i

573
00:18:30,470 --> 00:18:29,679
don't know if this book could have been

574
00:18:32,710 --> 00:18:30,480
written

575
00:18:35,350 --> 00:18:32,720
10 or 15 years ago it should have been

576
00:18:39,270 --> 00:18:35,360
written 10 or 15 years ago but

577
00:18:43,350 --> 00:18:39,280
if it could have been yeah it seems like

578
00:18:47,110 --> 00:18:43,360
we're having a moment for weird bigfoot

579
00:18:51,350 --> 00:18:47,120
and you know i wonder if it's just not

580
00:18:53,669 --> 00:18:51,360
60 70 years of casting footprints

581
00:18:54,549 --> 00:18:53,679
and ignoring the weird stuff kind of

582
00:18:57,029 --> 00:18:54,559
leading to

583
00:18:58,230 --> 00:18:57,039
not many answers and people are just

584
00:19:00,230 --> 00:18:58,240
kind of breaking and saying

585
00:19:01,590 --> 00:19:00,240
well we've ignored the weird stuff long

586
00:19:05,029 --> 00:19:01,600
enough now we have to dig in

587
00:19:07,430 --> 00:19:05,039
i'm not sure and

588
00:19:08,150 --> 00:19:07,440
josh you mentioned mike clelland and yes

589
00:19:10,070 --> 00:19:08,160
he has

590
00:19:11,990 --> 00:19:10,080
a great book called the messengers all

591
00:19:14,070 --> 00:19:12,000
about owls in this

592
00:19:16,150 --> 00:19:14,080
whole paranormal space i had them on

593
00:19:16,950 --> 00:19:16,160
here got to be a couple years ago at

594
00:19:19,190 --> 00:19:16,960
this point

595
00:19:19,990 --> 00:19:19,200
but another good point that comes up in

596
00:19:22,230 --> 00:19:20,000
your book

597
00:19:23,110 --> 00:19:22,240
that maybe even complicates things

598
00:19:26,549 --> 00:19:23,120
further is that

599
00:19:29,190 --> 00:19:26,559
there very well could be a wild man

600
00:19:30,070 --> 00:19:29,200
lineage or maybe just an archetype out

601
00:19:32,630 --> 00:19:30,080
there

602
00:19:33,270 --> 00:19:32,640
but using the analogy that mike uses in

603
00:19:36,789 --> 00:19:33,280
his work

604
00:19:39,510 --> 00:19:36,799
owls are real but sometimes owl imagery

605
00:19:41,350 --> 00:19:39,520
is also used by something else that's

606
00:19:43,270 --> 00:19:41,360
behind this weird stuff

607
00:19:46,150 --> 00:19:43,280
and there could be a parallel there that

608
00:19:48,470 --> 00:19:46,160
maybe almost both are true in a sense

609
00:19:50,230 --> 00:19:48,480
yeah i mean i think you kind of have to

610
00:19:51,190 --> 00:19:50,240
at least entertain that idea because as

611
00:19:51,750 --> 00:19:51,200
much as we're talking about the

612
00:19:53,029 --> 00:19:51,760
weirdness

613
00:19:55,029 --> 00:19:53,039
that surrounds a lot of these bigfoot

614
00:19:56,549 --> 00:19:55,039
sightings there are aspects of these

615
00:19:57,190 --> 00:19:56,559
bigfoot sightings that are a hundred

616
00:20:00,470 --> 00:19:57,200
percent

617
00:20:01,110 --> 00:20:00,480
out of any primate textbook you'll see

618
00:20:03,190 --> 00:20:01,120
things like

619
00:20:04,789 --> 00:20:03,200
dermal ridges on you know the footprints

620
00:20:06,549 --> 00:20:04,799
and mid-parcel breaks

621
00:20:08,070 --> 00:20:06,559
things that are very specific to primate

622
00:20:10,230 --> 00:20:08,080
anatomy you'll find

623
00:20:12,230 --> 00:20:10,240
reports of people stumbling upon bigfoot

624
00:20:13,430 --> 00:20:12,240
and the bigfoot's hair standing on end

625
00:20:14,630 --> 00:20:13,440
which is a common

626
00:20:17,350 --> 00:20:14,640
threat display it's called pillow

627
00:20:21,669 --> 00:20:17,360
reduction the common threat display

628
00:20:23,430 --> 00:20:21,679
amongst higher primates so obviously

629
00:20:25,350 --> 00:20:23,440
there's got to be some sort of interplay

630
00:20:26,950 --> 00:20:25,360
with the natural world in this respect i

631
00:20:28,789 --> 00:20:26,960
think i'm probably

632
00:20:30,549 --> 00:20:28,799
a little bit more charitable of the idea

633
00:20:31,350 --> 00:20:30,559
of a flesh and blood bigfoot than tim is

634
00:20:33,669 --> 00:20:31,360
at this point

635
00:20:34,950 --> 00:20:33,679
even though i think i think i started

636
00:20:36,870 --> 00:20:34,960
out

637
00:20:38,470 --> 00:20:36,880
a little bit weird and then tim wasn't

638
00:20:40,870 --> 00:20:38,480
as weird and then somehow we passed each

639
00:20:42,549 --> 00:20:40,880
other in the night so that now

640
00:20:43,750 --> 00:20:42,559
so somehow i'm kind of the one who's

641
00:20:45,669 --> 00:20:43,760
always willing to like leave a foot in

642
00:20:46,950 --> 00:20:45,679
the door for the flesh and blood primate

643
00:20:49,669 --> 00:20:46,960
because let's be honest we don't really

644
00:20:51,350 --> 00:20:49,679
have an idea of what is going on i think

645
00:20:54,710 --> 00:20:51,360
the most

646
00:20:58,549 --> 00:20:54,720
can say is that if this

647
00:21:01,110 --> 00:20:58,559
is literally a undiscovered or

648
00:21:03,669 --> 00:21:01,120
a relic population of hominid it has

649
00:21:05,750 --> 00:21:03,679
some strange attributes that we are just

650
00:21:07,350 --> 00:21:05,760
not prepared to discuss in terms of our

651
00:21:10,470 --> 00:21:07,360
current materials paradigm

652
00:21:13,029 --> 00:21:10,480
king of evolution if that's the case

653
00:21:15,190 --> 00:21:13,039
yes and on so many topics i find myself

654
00:21:16,070 --> 00:21:15,200
drifting back and forth as well because

655
00:21:18,630 --> 00:21:16,080
you want to come to

656
00:21:20,710 --> 00:21:18,640
one conclusion and then you hear a story

657
00:21:22,230 --> 00:21:20,720
that blows that conclusion up and so

658
00:21:23,029 --> 00:21:22,240
you're like well okay maybe i'll go back

659
00:21:25,190 --> 00:21:23,039
over here

660
00:21:26,950 --> 00:21:25,200
but there's just so much weird data out

661
00:21:29,190 --> 00:21:26,960
there of course when we grew up

662
00:21:29,990 --> 00:21:29,200
seeing the patterson footage and

663
00:21:31,669 --> 00:21:30,000
watching harry

664
00:21:33,990 --> 00:21:31,679
and the hendersons it's definitely going

665
00:21:34,630 --> 00:21:34,000
to have an effect on us thinking this is

666
00:21:42,390 --> 00:21:34,640
a

667
00:21:45,110 --> 00:21:42,400
your mindset

668
00:21:46,789 --> 00:21:45,120
about how to look at this thing but man

669
00:21:50,149 --> 00:21:46,799
there's definitely just too much

670
00:21:51,830 --> 00:21:50,159
other weird stuff that can't be denied

671
00:21:53,190 --> 00:21:51,840
yeah we have to accept the possibility

672
00:21:55,750 --> 00:21:53,200
that there might be multiple

673
00:21:56,870 --> 00:21:55,760
scenarios at play but just throwing out

674
00:21:58,470 --> 00:21:56,880
the strange stuff doesn't really do

675
00:21:59,270 --> 00:21:58,480
anybody any favors sorry tim you're

676
00:22:00,870 --> 00:21:59,280
about to say something

677
00:22:02,870 --> 00:22:00,880
well i was going to say the other thing

678
00:22:04,470 --> 00:22:02,880
that that i was kind of told

679
00:22:05,909 --> 00:22:04,480
as i was getting into this and kind of

680
00:22:09,590 --> 00:22:05,919
poking at the weird stuff was

681
00:22:12,149 --> 00:22:09,600
that east coast big foot cases are weird

682
00:22:13,190 --> 00:22:12,159
and west coast bigfoot cases are natural

683
00:22:15,669 --> 00:22:13,200
animals

684
00:22:17,270 --> 00:22:15,679
and the further east you go the weirder

685
00:22:18,950 --> 00:22:17,280
the cases get until you get to you know

686
00:22:20,549 --> 00:22:18,960
pennsylvania which is like king of the

687
00:22:23,029 --> 00:22:20,559
weird bigfoot stuff

688
00:22:25,110 --> 00:22:23,039
but it's really not true there's weird

689
00:22:26,950 --> 00:22:25,120
bigfoot stuff all over including plenty

690
00:22:29,270 --> 00:22:26,960
of weird big foot stuff from the pacific

691
00:22:32,070 --> 00:22:29,280
northwest

692
00:22:33,350 --> 00:22:32,080
and when it comes to high strangeness

693
00:22:34,630 --> 00:22:33,360
that accompanies these sightings you

694
00:22:37,029 --> 00:22:34,640
relay a lot of different

695
00:22:38,549 --> 00:22:37,039
sighting stories obviously they can be

696
00:22:40,390 --> 00:22:38,559
wildly different

697
00:22:42,710 --> 00:22:40,400
their own special snowflakes and all

698
00:22:44,630 --> 00:22:42,720
that but what are the major themes

699
00:22:46,470 --> 00:22:44,640
on the checklist obviously that first

700
00:22:48,870 --> 00:22:46,480
story hit on several of them

701
00:22:49,909 --> 00:22:48,880
orbs of light a possession aspect an

702
00:22:52,310 --> 00:22:49,919
mib-like

703
00:22:53,590 --> 00:22:52,320
visit in the aftermath but what other

704
00:22:55,190 --> 00:22:53,600
themes seem to come up

705
00:22:58,310 --> 00:22:55,200
more and more as you've dug into this

706
00:23:00,070 --> 00:22:58,320
thing well one of the things that has

707
00:23:01,830 --> 00:23:00,080
consistently stuck in my crawl for a

708
00:23:03,590 --> 00:23:01,840
while is the similarities between

709
00:23:05,669 --> 00:23:03,600
poltergeist infestations and

710
00:23:07,830 --> 00:23:05,679
bigfoot class b reports so if anybody

711
00:23:09,830 --> 00:23:07,840
isn't aware of this term the class b

712
00:23:11,190 --> 00:23:09,840
report is a term that the bigfoot field

713
00:23:14,549 --> 00:23:11,200
researcher organization

714
00:23:15,990 --> 00:23:14,559
has used to catalog

715
00:23:17,750 --> 00:23:16,000
things that happen in the forest that

716
00:23:18,710 --> 00:23:17,760
are odd and highly suggestive of

717
00:23:20,470 --> 00:23:18,720
sasquatch but

718
00:23:21,750 --> 00:23:20,480
no sasquatch is actually seen and these

719
00:23:25,590 --> 00:23:21,760
can include

720
00:23:28,630 --> 00:23:25,600
rock throwing noises wood knocks

721
00:23:31,190 --> 00:23:28,640
footprints etc but if you take

722
00:23:32,630 --> 00:23:31,200
all those different things that people

723
00:23:33,430 --> 00:23:32,640
attribute to sasquatch when they're in

724
00:23:35,350 --> 00:23:33,440
the woods

725
00:23:37,350 --> 00:23:35,360
and put them in a house centered around

726
00:23:39,510 --> 00:23:37,360
you know for example a prepubescent girl

727
00:23:40,870 --> 00:23:39,520
you've got a poltergeist to the extent

728
00:23:42,310 --> 00:23:40,880
that to the extent that you know

729
00:23:43,269 --> 00:23:42,320
sometimes these rocks that are thrown at

730
00:23:44,950 --> 00:23:43,279
people in the woods

731
00:23:46,710 --> 00:23:44,960
are warm to the touch now if you're you

732
00:23:48,230 --> 00:23:46,720
know of the more primatological way of

733
00:23:49,669 --> 00:23:48,240
thinking you say oh well the bigfoot was

734
00:23:51,190 --> 00:23:49,679
holding a rock in its hand and that's

735
00:23:53,590 --> 00:23:51,200
why the rock's warm and then it throws

736
00:23:54,710 --> 00:23:53,600
the person but it's interesting that

737
00:23:56,789 --> 00:23:54,720
without fail

738
00:23:58,710 --> 00:23:56,799
these rains and showers of stones that

739
00:24:01,269 --> 00:23:58,720
happen during poltergeist

740
00:24:02,230 --> 00:24:01,279
infestations are often hot or you know

741
00:24:04,390 --> 00:24:02,240
warm to the touch

742
00:24:05,830 --> 00:24:04,400
as well and you know there's precedence

743
00:24:07,430 --> 00:24:05,840
for all these other things these

744
00:24:09,269 --> 00:24:07,440
knocks and raps are one of the most

745
00:24:11,110 --> 00:24:09,279
common manifestations of poltergeist

746
00:24:12,070 --> 00:24:11,120
activity particularly in seances it used

747
00:24:14,470 --> 00:24:12,080
to find during

748
00:24:15,269 --> 00:24:14,480
the spiritualist tradition and believe

749
00:24:17,830 --> 00:24:15,279
it or not

750
00:24:19,909 --> 00:24:17,840
plenty of seances where people saw

751
00:24:21,590 --> 00:24:19,919
manifestations of large hairy hands or

752
00:24:23,750 --> 00:24:21,600
in some extreme examples

753
00:24:25,269 --> 00:24:23,760
large man creatures or man things

754
00:24:26,149 --> 00:24:25,279
covered in fur so there's this

755
00:24:27,990 --> 00:24:26,159
poltergeist

756
00:24:29,669 --> 00:24:28,000
aspect which kind of i think is

757
00:24:30,870 --> 00:24:29,679
interesting because it sort of

758
00:24:32,789 --> 00:24:30,880
threads its way through several of the

759
00:24:34,710 --> 00:24:32,799
different topics a lot of different

760
00:24:36,070 --> 00:24:34,720
paranormal entities have been attributed

761
00:24:37,909 --> 00:24:36,080
with this you know the stone throwing

762
00:24:39,669 --> 00:24:37,919
the lithoboli as it's called

763
00:24:41,909 --> 00:24:39,679
behavior including fairies and there's

764
00:24:44,310 --> 00:24:41,919
an entire chapter dedicated to fairies

765
00:24:45,269 --> 00:24:44,320
the extraterrestrial connection which is

766
00:24:48,310 --> 00:24:45,279
something i would have never

767
00:24:50,549 --> 00:24:48,320
put together ghosts and then

768
00:24:52,149 --> 00:24:50,559
tim's real areas of focus are sort of on

769
00:24:53,750 --> 00:24:52,159
window areas and gifting in this whole

770
00:24:54,870 --> 00:24:53,760
woman in white archetype which is

771
00:24:56,950 --> 00:24:54,880
something that really blew me away the

772
00:24:58,390 --> 00:24:56,960
first time i i noticed it but

773
00:24:59,510 --> 00:24:58,400
there are definitely these things that

774
00:25:00,310 --> 00:24:59,520
find their way through all these

775
00:25:03,669 --> 00:25:00,320
different

776
00:25:06,630 --> 00:25:03,679
topics the stone throwing the knocks the

777
00:25:07,190 --> 00:25:06,640
vocalizations the ability to phase

778
00:25:09,269 --> 00:25:07,200
through

779
00:25:10,310 --> 00:25:09,279
matter or to blink out of existence and

780
00:25:13,269 --> 00:25:10,320
disappear

781
00:25:14,230 --> 00:25:13,279
all these things occur in each of these

782
00:25:15,830 --> 00:25:14,240
different subjects

783
00:25:17,590 --> 00:25:15,840
interestingly enough another topic you

784
00:25:18,870 --> 00:25:17,600
know why we haven't ever killed a

785
00:25:21,750 --> 00:25:18,880
bigfoot

786
00:25:22,870 --> 00:25:21,760
is because in almost every account let's

787
00:25:24,470 --> 00:25:22,880
say almost every because there's some

788
00:25:25,590 --> 00:25:24,480
caveats to be made there but in almost

789
00:25:27,110 --> 00:25:25,600
every account people shoot at these

790
00:25:28,310 --> 00:25:27,120
things and they don't even react

791
00:25:30,070 --> 00:25:28,320
it's not like they're injured or

792
00:25:31,350 --> 00:25:30,080
something they just literally act as if

793
00:25:33,190 --> 00:25:31,360
nothing's happening

794
00:25:35,430 --> 00:25:33,200
and you'll find that sort of bulletproof

795
00:25:37,269 --> 00:25:35,440
aspect manifesting itself in

796
00:25:38,789 --> 00:25:37,279
you know old world witch literature

797
00:25:40,310 --> 00:25:38,799
where people would like fire a musket

798
00:25:41,029 --> 00:25:40,320
ball to witch's chest and the musket

799
00:25:42,470 --> 00:25:41,039
ball would

800
00:25:44,070 --> 00:25:42,480
be destroyed or somebody would try to

801
00:25:45,430 --> 00:25:44,080
cut a witch's hair with some scissors

802
00:25:46,870 --> 00:25:45,440
and the scissors would become completely

803
00:25:48,149 --> 00:25:46,880
mangled and ruined so

804
00:25:50,549 --> 00:25:48,159
this idea that these creatures are

805
00:25:51,830 --> 00:25:50,559
impervious they just don't seem to have

806
00:25:53,190 --> 00:25:51,840
this real physical component it's

807
00:25:56,390 --> 00:25:53,200
something that comes up time and time

808
00:25:58,950 --> 00:25:56,400
again in all this all this literature

809
00:26:00,070 --> 00:25:58,960
yes i think that's a great breakdown and

810
00:26:02,149 --> 00:26:00,080
i think it's

811
00:26:03,430 --> 00:26:02,159
wild disguised as you put it but that's

812
00:26:05,029 --> 00:26:03,440
a really great

813
00:26:06,630 --> 00:26:05,039
connection to make because people have

814
00:26:07,029 --> 00:26:06,640
been looking at this stuff for so long

815
00:26:08,549 --> 00:26:07,039
but

816
00:26:10,390 --> 00:26:08,559
they haven't really realized that the

817
00:26:13,190 --> 00:26:10,400
biggest difference between

818
00:26:13,909 --> 00:26:13,200
poltergeist themes and bigfoot themes is

819
00:26:15,909 --> 00:26:13,919
that you're either

820
00:26:17,269 --> 00:26:15,919
inside or outside because like you say

821
00:26:20,149 --> 00:26:17,279
the wrapping sounds

822
00:26:21,750 --> 00:26:20,159
the throwing of rocks around happening

823
00:26:23,830 --> 00:26:21,760
mainly after nightfall

824
00:26:26,710 --> 00:26:23,840
like those are pretty big similarities

825
00:26:28,549 --> 00:26:26,720
and probably shouldn't be discounted

826
00:26:30,630 --> 00:26:28,559
and another good example is one that tim

827
00:26:32,470 --> 00:26:30,640
is going to be diving into quite a bit

828
00:26:33,269 --> 00:26:32,480
in volume two which is already laid out

829
00:26:35,510 --> 00:26:33,279
we've just gotta

830
00:26:36,870 --> 00:26:35,520
we just gotta put it together now are

831
00:26:38,630 --> 00:26:36,880
these balls of light you know you see a

832
00:26:41,510 --> 00:26:38,640
ball of light in the sky

833
00:26:42,870 --> 00:26:41,520
it's a ufo you see a ball of light

834
00:26:44,390 --> 00:26:42,880
dancing across the countryside in

835
00:26:46,070 --> 00:26:44,400
ireland it's a fairy you see a ball of

836
00:26:47,990 --> 00:26:46,080
light inside an old house and it's a

837
00:26:49,510 --> 00:26:48,000
ghost from a haunted house and you see

838
00:26:51,350 --> 00:26:49,520
a ball of light in the woods and believe

839
00:26:53,269 --> 00:26:51,360
it or not there's actually a lot of

840
00:26:54,549 --> 00:26:53,279
connections between bigfoot and these

841
00:26:56,710 --> 00:26:54,559
mysterious orbs of light

842
00:26:58,870 --> 00:26:56,720
so i've often thought that it's kind of

843
00:27:00,789 --> 00:26:58,880
attractive to approach these ideas as

844
00:27:01,590 --> 00:27:00,799
sort of a pan-paranormal possibility

845
00:27:03,750 --> 00:27:01,600
that there might be

846
00:27:05,350 --> 00:27:03,760
one phenomena behind all these things

847
00:27:06,870 --> 00:27:05,360
and i'm not sure i like to

848
00:27:08,789 --> 00:27:06,880
leave some room for myself to be wrong

849
00:27:10,789 --> 00:27:08,799
on that but i think at the very least

850
00:27:12,149 --> 00:27:10,799
there is significant overlap in the venn

851
00:27:13,750 --> 00:27:12,159
diagrams of each of these different

852
00:27:15,430 --> 00:27:13,760
topics

853
00:27:18,470 --> 00:27:15,440
i think that's why i'm attracted to the

854
00:27:20,789 --> 00:27:18,480
idea of window areas because

855
00:27:23,190 --> 00:27:20,799
if you could say it's a window to the

856
00:27:26,230 --> 00:27:23,200
imaginative realm or the imaginal

857
00:27:28,710 --> 00:27:26,240
or something that uh you know probably

858
00:27:31,590 --> 00:27:28,720
fits in patrick harper's book

859
00:27:32,389 --> 00:27:31,600
it's like that makes a lot of this other

860
00:27:34,549 --> 00:27:32,399
stuff

861
00:27:36,389 --> 00:27:34,559
make sense because why wouldn't many

862
00:27:39,269 --> 00:27:36,399
things fall out of the

863
00:27:40,549 --> 00:27:39,279
imaginal realm and into this one i don't

864
00:27:41,909 --> 00:27:40,559
know that's kind of why i'm attracted

865
00:27:42,950 --> 00:27:41,919
that idea because everything is so

866
00:27:44,470 --> 00:27:42,960
varied

867
00:27:46,950 --> 00:27:44,480
well one of the reasons that i think

868
00:27:47,990 --> 00:27:46,960
that this collaboration between timothy

869
00:27:51,190 --> 00:27:48,000
and i work so well is

870
00:27:53,510 --> 00:27:51,200
that i'm mostly the guy looking for

871
00:27:55,909 --> 00:27:53,520
old you know dusty books and you know

872
00:27:57,430 --> 00:27:55,919
ancient archive.org pages of you know

873
00:27:59,990 --> 00:27:57,440
finding all these old books and making

874
00:28:02,710 --> 00:28:00,000
those interdisciplinary connections but

875
00:28:04,630 --> 00:28:02,720
tim actually has a great amount of

876
00:28:06,230 --> 00:28:04,640
fieldwork under his belt and i'm super

877
00:28:07,430 --> 00:28:06,240
jealous because he happens to live in

878
00:28:08,710 --> 00:28:07,440
what i would i don't know if he would

879
00:28:10,630 --> 00:28:08,720
but i would call

880
00:28:13,430 --> 00:28:10,640
his little slice of america sort of a

881
00:28:15,110 --> 00:28:13,440
window area in and of itself

882
00:28:16,549 --> 00:28:15,120
yeah i'm lucky to live where i live and

883
00:28:17,909 --> 00:28:16,559
be interested in this kind of stuff for

884
00:28:19,110 --> 00:28:17,919
sure

885
00:28:20,870 --> 00:28:19,120
well that was going to be one of my

886
00:28:22,789 --> 00:28:20,880
questions for you and our listeners

887
00:28:26,070 --> 00:28:22,799
would be extra interested

888
00:28:27,190 --> 00:28:26,080
because you are in pennsylvania you talk

889
00:28:29,190 --> 00:28:27,200
about

890
00:28:32,070 --> 00:28:29,200
york county which borders the

891
00:28:34,789 --> 00:28:32,080
susquehanna river and we have a

892
00:28:36,870 --> 00:28:34,799
semi-regular guest who talks about the

893
00:28:39,669 --> 00:28:36,880
magical potency and the

894
00:28:40,310 --> 00:28:39,679
synchronicity potency of the susquehanna

895
00:28:43,510 --> 00:28:40,320
river

896
00:28:45,750 --> 00:28:43,520
and the long legacy it has of

897
00:28:47,590 --> 00:28:45,760
people performing rituals and offerings

898
00:28:51,269 --> 00:28:47,600
to the river goddess and

899
00:28:53,590 --> 00:28:51,279
so that sort of thing fitting within a

900
00:28:56,630 --> 00:28:53,600
paranormal hot spot we could say

901
00:28:57,590 --> 00:28:56,640
is very appropriate i think that makes a

902
00:28:59,430 --> 00:28:57,600
lot of sense but

903
00:29:00,710 --> 00:28:59,440
i guess i would ask you what has your

904
00:29:03,269 --> 00:29:00,720
field research

905
00:29:04,950 --> 00:29:03,279
and just living in that area what kind

906
00:29:07,269 --> 00:29:04,960
of insights has that given you

907
00:29:08,870 --> 00:29:07,279
that maybe someone who doesn't have

908
00:29:10,389 --> 00:29:08,880
field research

909
00:29:11,990 --> 00:29:10,399
would have like what did you learn from

910
00:29:15,350 --> 00:29:12,000
getting out of the books and

911
00:29:17,750 --> 00:29:15,360
into the real environment i mean a lot

912
00:29:18,470 --> 00:29:17,760
you talk about a window area the chapter

913
00:29:21,909 --> 00:29:18,480
i have

914
00:29:24,310 --> 00:29:21,919
in the book called the company they keep

915
00:29:25,830 --> 00:29:24,320
is about an area of eight to ten square

916
00:29:26,710 --> 00:29:25,840
miles in york county right along the

917
00:29:29,669 --> 00:29:26,720
river

918
00:29:31,510 --> 00:29:29,679
right along the susquehanna there where

919
00:29:32,230 --> 00:29:31,520
i started looking at bigfoot reports you

920
00:29:34,549 --> 00:29:32,240
know i tracked

921
00:29:36,470 --> 00:29:34,559
an old report from a paper back in you

922
00:29:39,269 --> 00:29:36,480
know the 1880s

923
00:29:40,789 --> 00:29:39,279
and then i noticed how many reports i

924
00:29:42,789 --> 00:29:40,799
was getting from this area

925
00:29:44,070 --> 00:29:42,799
and i tracked these reports through the

926
00:29:45,510 --> 00:29:44,080
years and

927
00:29:47,350 --> 00:29:45,520
i was like wow that's a lot of bigfoot

928
00:29:49,830 --> 00:29:47,360
reports for this area

929
00:29:50,630 --> 00:29:49,840
so i started you know really looking at

930
00:29:53,990 --> 00:29:50,640
the area

931
00:29:54,549 --> 00:29:54,000
and digging in and you know two things

932
00:29:56,630 --> 00:29:54,559
became

933
00:29:57,750 --> 00:29:56,640
apparent first of all there's no

934
00:29:59,830 --> 00:29:57,760
wilderness there

935
00:30:01,029 --> 00:29:59,840
in which a breeding population of giant

936
00:30:02,950 --> 00:30:01,039
ape men could

937
00:30:04,149 --> 00:30:02,960
live and hide you know there's some

938
00:30:06,870 --> 00:30:04,159
woods there

939
00:30:07,190 --> 00:30:06,880
some beautiful hiking trails but you

940
00:30:09,590 --> 00:30:07,200
know

941
00:30:10,950 --> 00:30:09,600
breeding population of giant ape

942
00:30:12,310 --> 00:30:10,960
creatures like there's just there's

943
00:30:14,310 --> 00:30:12,320
nothing there for it there's

944
00:30:15,510 --> 00:30:14,320
no place for them to hide there's

945
00:30:17,110 --> 00:30:15,520
probably enough food

946
00:30:18,630 --> 00:30:17,120
i guess although the environmental

947
00:30:20,470 --> 00:30:18,640
impact would be pretty

948
00:30:22,070 --> 00:30:20,480
evident i think if there was a again a

949
00:30:24,710 --> 00:30:22,080
breeding population of

950
00:30:26,389 --> 00:30:24,720
giant ape creatures there but there's

951
00:30:28,789 --> 00:30:26,399
definitely no place for them to hide

952
00:30:29,830 --> 00:30:28,799
so i'm left with these questions like

953
00:30:32,389 --> 00:30:29,840
well

954
00:30:33,669 --> 00:30:32,399
what's going on are they coming through

955
00:30:35,190 --> 00:30:33,679
you know are they nomadic

956
00:30:37,190 --> 00:30:35,200
a lot of the flesh and blood researchers

957
00:30:38,789 --> 00:30:37,200
well they're nomadic well i'm getting

958
00:30:41,590 --> 00:30:38,799
reports from all times a year

959
00:30:43,110 --> 00:30:41,600
so that doesn't make sense for a nomadic

960
00:30:45,590 --> 00:30:43,120
creature like why are they there in the

961
00:30:49,029 --> 00:30:45,600
winter and the summer

962
00:30:50,870 --> 00:30:49,039
and then i started noticing

963
00:30:53,269 --> 00:30:50,880
all this other weirdness as i'm looking

964
00:30:54,789 --> 00:30:53,279
at bigfoot cases i'm asking around

965
00:30:57,269 --> 00:30:54,799
in the area and people are like oh yeah

966
00:30:57,750 --> 00:30:57,279
yeah you know my cousin saw bigfoot here

967
00:31:00,389 --> 00:30:57,760
in

968
00:31:01,190 --> 00:31:00,399
1975 or whatever but this house is

969
00:31:03,909 --> 00:31:01,200
haunted

970
00:31:05,029 --> 00:31:03,919
i'm like oh okay and there's a ghost

971
00:31:06,470 --> 00:31:05,039
story here and

972
00:31:08,389 --> 00:31:06,480
there were spiritualists that lived in

973
00:31:09,590 --> 00:31:08,399
this house and they would do automatic

974
00:31:11,110 --> 00:31:09,600
writing and they said

975
00:31:12,710 --> 00:31:11,120
pirates sailed up the susquehanna and

976
00:31:14,870 --> 00:31:12,720
buried treasure in the area

977
00:31:16,710 --> 00:31:14,880
and there's ufo sightings and again it's

978
00:31:17,269 --> 00:31:16,720
all this stuff in this eight square mile

979
00:31:19,509 --> 00:31:17,279
area

980
00:31:21,110 --> 00:31:19,519
and i just started thinking there's a

981
00:31:24,310 --> 00:31:21,120
lot of weird stuff here

982
00:31:25,909 --> 00:31:24,320
for it not to be connected and at some

983
00:31:26,789 --> 00:31:25,919
point i was just casually this is long

984
00:31:28,310 --> 00:31:26,799
before we ever

985
00:31:30,149 --> 00:31:28,320
started working on the book i was just

986
00:31:32,549 --> 00:31:30,159
casually talking to josh about it

987
00:31:33,990 --> 00:31:32,559
and he said you know very offhandedly to

988
00:31:35,029 --> 00:31:34,000
me said tim look at the company these

989
00:31:36,470 --> 00:31:35,039
things keep and

990
00:31:38,389 --> 00:31:36,480
you know gave me the title for that

991
00:31:40,230 --> 00:31:38,399
chapter but

992
00:31:42,230 --> 00:31:40,240
it's a lot of wisdom to it and i started

993
00:31:44,310 --> 00:31:42,240
just thinking about it like wow this is

994
00:31:46,310 --> 00:31:44,320
you know how rare is it to see a bigfoot

995
00:31:47,669 --> 00:31:46,320
how rare is it to see a ufo

996
00:31:49,669 --> 00:31:47,679
and now we're talking about multiple

997
00:31:51,430 --> 00:31:49,679
instances of people seeing both

998
00:31:53,190 --> 00:31:51,440
in this you know 8 to 10 square mile

999
00:31:54,149 --> 00:31:53,200
area there's also a nuclear power plant

1000
00:31:56,070 --> 00:31:54,159
dropped in there

1001
00:31:57,269 --> 00:31:56,080
there's all kinds of just strange

1002
00:31:59,990 --> 00:31:57,279
strange stuff there

1003
00:32:00,389 --> 00:32:00,000
so that was a major factor for me kind

1004
00:32:02,310 --> 00:32:00,399
of

1005
00:32:03,590 --> 00:32:02,320
backing away from that flesh and blood

1006
00:32:06,389 --> 00:32:03,600
hypothesis and

1007
00:32:07,269 --> 00:32:06,399
getting into more of this weird idea so

1008
00:32:09,909 --> 00:32:07,279
between that

1009
00:32:10,870 --> 00:32:09,919
and also talking to witnesses on a

1010
00:32:13,669 --> 00:32:10,880
regular basis

1011
00:32:15,750 --> 00:32:13,679
and you know josh touch on this i think

1012
00:32:17,110 --> 00:32:15,760
it's important to point out that

1013
00:32:19,190 --> 00:32:17,120
you know if a hunter sees a creature

1014
00:32:20,230 --> 00:32:19,200
walk by when he's in a tree stand or if

1015
00:32:22,149 --> 00:32:20,240
you know somebody's driving down the

1016
00:32:22,630 --> 00:32:22,159
road and a big foot crosses in front of

1017
00:32:24,789 --> 00:32:22,640
them

1018
00:32:26,389 --> 00:32:24,799
i don't blame those people at all for

1019
00:32:28,310 --> 00:32:26,399
thinking they're natural creatures

1020
00:32:30,230 --> 00:32:28,320
all the information they got at the

1021
00:32:31,909 --> 00:32:30,240
moment they saw it was that there's a

1022
00:32:33,669 --> 00:32:31,919
natural creature that walked across

1023
00:32:35,590 --> 00:32:33,679
in front of my vision and walked into

1024
00:32:37,029 --> 00:32:35,600
the woods or whatever happened

1025
00:32:39,430 --> 00:32:37,039
but it's these people that have these

1026
00:32:43,190 --> 00:32:39,440
repeat encounters and

1027
00:32:44,789 --> 00:32:43,200
without fail when i start asking them

1028
00:32:46,230 --> 00:32:44,799
what else happens what else happens what

1029
00:32:47,990 --> 00:32:46,240
else happens well there's weird lights

1030
00:32:49,750 --> 00:32:48,000
we saw orbs there's this there's this

1031
00:32:52,230 --> 00:32:49,760
happens there's poltergeist activity

1032
00:32:53,110 --> 00:32:52,240
at my house it's really just a checklist

1033
00:32:56,310 --> 00:32:53,120
you can go through

1034
00:32:58,470 --> 00:32:56,320
so it's very very valuable to have that

1035
00:32:59,909 --> 00:32:58,480
boots on the ground experience i think

1036
00:33:01,029 --> 00:32:59,919
when you talk to these people and they

1037
00:33:02,389 --> 00:33:01,039
just start opening up

1038
00:33:03,990 --> 00:33:02,399
then and telling once they know it's

1039
00:33:05,669 --> 00:33:04,000
safe once they know you don't think

1040
00:33:07,110 --> 00:33:05,679
they're crazy for seeing a bigfoot

1041
00:33:08,710 --> 00:33:07,120
they'll open up and tell you about the

1042
00:33:10,230 --> 00:33:08,720
other stuff and again

1043
00:33:11,909 --> 00:33:10,240
i can't think of an instance where

1044
00:33:13,110 --> 00:33:11,919
people have had repeat encounters that

1045
00:33:14,870 --> 00:33:13,120
i've talked to them that they

1046
00:33:16,630 --> 00:33:14,880
haven't also experienced other weird

1047
00:33:19,750 --> 00:33:16,640
stuff with bigfoot

1048
00:33:21,669 --> 00:33:19,760
right on yes repeat experiences another

1049
00:33:23,990 --> 00:33:21,679
commonality with other slices of the

1050
00:33:25,509 --> 00:33:24,000
paranormal pie for sure

1051
00:33:27,909 --> 00:33:25,519
and it wouldn't make sense in the

1052
00:33:29,830 --> 00:33:27,919
context of a flesh and blood

1053
00:33:31,750 --> 00:33:29,840
creature you know you could say there's

1054
00:33:33,029 --> 00:33:31,760
a lot of areas where bears or mountain

1055
00:33:35,269 --> 00:33:33,039
lions are rare

1056
00:33:36,789 --> 00:33:35,279
but if you know one family is seeing a

1057
00:33:38,389 --> 00:33:36,799
mountain lion every week then

1058
00:33:41,029 --> 00:33:38,399
something's definitely up

1059
00:33:42,389 --> 00:33:41,039
and josh you have a great story that

1060
00:33:45,509 --> 00:33:42,399
kicks off your section

1061
00:33:48,070 --> 00:33:45,519
on the fairy folk loreal

1062
00:33:49,830 --> 00:33:48,080
overlap we could say because it has my

1063
00:33:53,430 --> 00:33:49,840
favorite magic words

1064
00:33:58,310 --> 00:33:53,440
subterranean lair and this comes from uh

1065
00:34:01,190 --> 00:33:58,320
june 9th 1857 edition of salem's weekly

1066
00:34:02,549 --> 00:34:01,200
organ statesman really going into the

1067
00:34:04,149 --> 00:34:02,559
archives for that one but

1068
00:34:06,070 --> 00:34:04,159
can you tell us a little bit about this

1069
00:34:07,750 --> 00:34:06,080
particular case

1070
00:34:09,829 --> 00:34:07,760
actually this was brought to my

1071
00:34:10,550 --> 00:34:09,839
attention by tim and i've since found

1072
00:34:12,950 --> 00:34:10,560
that in

1073
00:34:14,869 --> 00:34:12,960
another book on large hairy giants where

1074
00:34:16,470 --> 00:34:14,879
they really weird washed

1075
00:34:18,149 --> 00:34:16,480
everything out of it all the strange

1076
00:34:21,750 --> 00:34:18,159
aspects but

1077
00:34:24,629 --> 00:34:21,760
there was a young boy who was

1078
00:34:26,069 --> 00:34:24,639
overnighting in the forest with an adult

1079
00:34:29,190 --> 00:34:26,079
and he heard this long

1080
00:34:31,589 --> 00:34:29,200
sort of loud plaintive cry in the forest

1081
00:34:32,790 --> 00:34:31,599
and this hairy man beast about you know

1082
00:34:35,190 --> 00:34:32,800
13 or so feet high

1083
00:34:37,030 --> 00:34:35,200
steps out and he says it had eyes that

1084
00:34:39,030 --> 00:34:37,040
glowed like liquid balls of fire and

1085
00:34:40,389 --> 00:34:39,040
this hairy man thing which obviously you

1086
00:34:41,669 --> 00:34:40,399
know given that it's oregon and it's

1087
00:34:44,310 --> 00:34:41,679
tall and a hairy man thing

1088
00:34:45,750 --> 00:34:44,320
had to say a sasquatch appears to this

1089
00:34:47,750 --> 00:34:45,760
boy and grabs him

1090
00:34:50,230 --> 00:34:47,760
and takes him through a trap door to

1091
00:34:52,869 --> 00:34:50,240
this underground layer that was

1092
00:34:54,629 --> 00:34:52,879
indirectly illuminated and the ceiling

1093
00:34:54,950 --> 00:34:54,639
was domed and appeared to be covered

1094
00:34:57,589 --> 00:34:54,960
with

1095
00:34:58,710 --> 00:34:57,599
almost like seashell type textures of

1096
00:35:01,109 --> 00:34:58,720
every shape and color

1097
00:35:02,790 --> 00:35:01,119
and you know deeper in the cave he heard

1098
00:35:06,069 --> 00:35:02,800
this sort of unearthly music

1099
00:35:06,870 --> 00:35:06,079
echoing out of the tunnels so this wild

1100
00:35:09,910 --> 00:35:06,880
man

1101
00:35:10,550 --> 00:35:09,920
leaves the boy there and eventually

1102
00:35:14,150 --> 00:35:10,560
returns

1103
00:35:15,829 --> 00:35:14,160
lady who takes this

1104
00:35:18,470 --> 00:35:15,839
basically a business card this card

1105
00:35:21,430 --> 00:35:18,480
that's embossed with the words that said

1106
00:35:22,790 --> 00:35:21,440
boy depart henceforth with or remain and

1107
00:35:25,190 --> 00:35:22,800
be devoured

1108
00:35:25,990 --> 00:35:25,200
and so the boy ended up exacting his

1109
00:35:29,349 --> 00:35:26,000
escape

1110
00:35:31,829 --> 00:35:29,359
now this is striking because it sounds

1111
00:35:33,190 --> 00:35:31,839
almost identical to a lot of the

1112
00:35:34,870 --> 00:35:33,200
fairy lore that you'll find in the

1113
00:35:37,270 --> 00:35:34,880
british isles

1114
00:35:39,349 --> 00:35:37,280
oftentimes people would either stumble

1115
00:35:40,950 --> 00:35:39,359
into or be abducted to fairyland and

1116
00:35:43,510 --> 00:35:40,960
while there

1117
00:35:44,150 --> 00:35:43,520
someone that they knew typically a

1118
00:35:46,790 --> 00:35:44,160
deceased

1119
00:35:47,349 --> 00:35:46,800
friend relative or neighbor would come

1120
00:35:49,510 --> 00:35:47,359
up to them

1121
00:35:51,190 --> 00:35:49,520
and tell them you've got to get out of

1122
00:35:53,430 --> 00:35:51,200
here don't eat the food

1123
00:35:54,870 --> 00:35:53,440
or else you'll be stuck here their goal

1124
00:35:57,190 --> 00:35:54,880
is to keep you here forever

1125
00:35:59,109 --> 00:35:57,200
so motivatedly that lines up perfectly

1126
00:36:00,630 --> 00:35:59,119
you've got this sort of unearthly music

1127
00:36:02,710 --> 00:36:00,640
floating through the air and fairies

1128
00:36:04,150 --> 00:36:02,720
love to make music and oftentimes

1129
00:36:05,589 --> 00:36:04,160
unearthly music that didn't seem to have

1130
00:36:06,150 --> 00:36:05,599
a source would be attributed to the

1131
00:36:08,470 --> 00:36:06,160
faithful

1132
00:36:10,630 --> 00:36:08,480
and also i think that the description of

1133
00:36:12,950 --> 00:36:10,640
this underground cave is being

1134
00:36:15,190 --> 00:36:12,960
illuminated from some non-existent light

1135
00:36:17,030 --> 00:36:15,200
source and being beautiful and domed

1136
00:36:18,470 --> 00:36:17,040
has a lot of precedent not only in the

1137
00:36:19,270 --> 00:36:18,480
alien abduction literature where you

1138
00:36:21,190 --> 00:36:19,280
often find this

1139
00:36:23,349 --> 00:36:21,200
illumination from no obvious place in

1140
00:36:24,950 --> 00:36:23,359
the sort of domed circular area

1141
00:36:26,950 --> 00:36:24,960
but also a lot of descriptions of the

1142
00:36:30,790 --> 00:36:26,960
space that you emerge into

1143
00:36:33,589 --> 00:36:30,800
on dmt trips this sort of very elaborate

1144
00:36:33,910 --> 00:36:33,599
almost like uh domed i want to say like

1145
00:36:38,310 --> 00:36:33,920
a

1146
00:36:41,589 --> 00:36:38,320
eye

1147
00:36:42,790 --> 00:36:41,599
yeah exactly so you put all these things

1148
00:36:43,990 --> 00:36:42,800
together and then you throw a bigfoot on

1149
00:36:44,310 --> 00:36:44,000
top and you're like what are we looking

1150
00:36:48,790 --> 00:36:44,320
at

1151
00:36:50,390 --> 00:36:48,800
will push back and say well fairies were

1152
00:36:51,829 --> 00:36:50,400
always small and while there's some

1153
00:36:53,270 --> 00:36:51,839
degree of truth to that fairies were

1154
00:36:54,710 --> 00:36:53,280
also shapeshifters and there are plenty

1155
00:36:56,310 --> 00:36:54,720
of stories of

1156
00:36:58,790 --> 00:36:56,320
taller entities that fall under that

1157
00:36:59,829 --> 00:36:58,800
fairy umbrella like trolls and ogres and

1158
00:37:01,910 --> 00:36:59,839
whatnot

1159
00:37:03,109 --> 00:37:01,920
really interesting that a lot of the

1160
00:37:05,270 --> 00:37:03,119
british folklore

1161
00:37:06,950 --> 00:37:05,280
describes brownies in their ilk so

1162
00:37:09,190 --> 00:37:06,960
brownies goblins

1163
00:37:10,069 --> 00:37:09,200
pick emderlin a lot of these different

1164
00:37:11,750 --> 00:37:10,079
sort of small

1165
00:37:13,510 --> 00:37:11,760
classes of fairies were described as

1166
00:37:15,349 --> 00:37:13,520
being little short hairy men with these

1167
00:37:17,910 --> 00:37:15,359
monkey faces so again there's a nice

1168
00:37:19,349 --> 00:37:17,920
little bigfoot connection there as well

1169
00:37:20,790 --> 00:37:19,359
and that rabbit hole just keeps getting

1170
00:37:21,990 --> 00:37:20,800
deeper and deeper the more you peel away

1171
00:37:24,230 --> 00:37:22,000
from it you know to the extent

1172
00:37:25,030 --> 00:37:24,240
that some people said you could summon

1173
00:37:27,430 --> 00:37:25,040
fairies by

1174
00:37:28,790 --> 00:37:27,440
knocking three times on a tree and what

1175
00:37:30,230 --> 00:37:28,800
do we see time and again in bigfoot

1176
00:37:31,670 --> 00:37:30,240
reports but are these wood knocks that

1177
00:37:33,510 --> 00:37:31,680
people say are either

1178
00:37:35,430 --> 00:37:33,520
bigfoot knocking rocks together or

1179
00:37:36,950 --> 00:37:35,440
bigfoot knocking a limb on a tree to

1180
00:37:39,190 --> 00:37:36,960
present these sort of knocks

1181
00:37:40,630 --> 00:37:39,200
in the forest so just it's a rich vein

1182
00:37:41,829 --> 00:37:40,640
of inquiry that i don't think a lot of

1183
00:37:42,870 --> 00:37:41,839
people have really taken the time to

1184
00:37:46,310 --> 00:37:42,880
look into

1185
00:37:48,150 --> 00:37:46,320
yes same shape for sure and obviously

1186
00:37:49,670 --> 00:37:48,160
josh and i have talked about this

1187
00:37:50,790 --> 00:37:49,680
underground stuff before but what are

1188
00:37:53,910 --> 00:37:50,800
your thoughts on the

1189
00:37:54,630 --> 00:37:53,920
subterranean aspect of this stuff tim i

1190
00:37:56,470 --> 00:37:54,640
mean again

1191
00:37:57,910 --> 00:37:56,480
from field research one of the questions

1192
00:37:58,550 --> 00:37:57,920
i ask people when i go out on any

1193
00:38:01,670 --> 00:37:58,560
paranormal

1194
00:38:02,950 --> 00:38:01,680
investigation is what's buried in the

1195
00:38:04,950 --> 00:38:02,960
ground here that's special

1196
00:38:06,710 --> 00:38:04,960
ah are there stories of buried treasure

1197
00:38:09,750 --> 00:38:06,720
is there old minds

1198
00:38:11,750 --> 00:38:09,760
and a lot of the time

1199
00:38:13,109 --> 00:38:11,760
i can't put a number on it i'd say 75

1200
00:38:14,870 --> 00:38:13,119
percent probably

1201
00:38:16,470 --> 00:38:14,880
or more you get these stories that

1202
00:38:18,310 --> 00:38:16,480
people say oh yeah there's a story of

1203
00:38:19,910 --> 00:38:18,320
buried treasure or yeah there's a lost

1204
00:38:21,030 --> 00:38:19,920
silver mine here that

1205
00:38:22,150 --> 00:38:21,040
you know there's a legend in the

1206
00:38:24,069 --> 00:38:22,160
neighborhood that there was a silver

1207
00:38:26,150 --> 00:38:24,079
mine that people had dug here and

1208
00:38:27,670 --> 00:38:26,160
you know it's not here even sometimes it

1209
00:38:29,430 --> 00:38:27,680
comes to

1210
00:38:30,790 --> 00:38:29,440
the idea that the creatures themselves

1211
00:38:32,790 --> 00:38:30,800
are living in the ground so it's this

1212
00:38:36,069 --> 00:38:32,800
idea that there's something

1213
00:38:38,710 --> 00:38:36,079
special something in the ground that is

1214
00:38:39,910 --> 00:38:38,720
special or valuable and i find it again

1215
00:38:42,230 --> 00:38:39,920
and again

1216
00:38:43,270 --> 00:38:42,240
a lot of the places i investigate you

1217
00:38:44,870 --> 00:38:43,280
know they've been digging into the

1218
00:38:48,630 --> 00:38:44,880
ground for hundreds of years

1219
00:38:50,230 --> 00:38:48,640
their old minds and so forth so

1220
00:38:52,470 --> 00:38:50,240
i think there's something to it there's

1221
00:38:54,069 --> 00:38:52,480
really something to it the idea of

1222
00:38:55,510 --> 00:38:54,079
you know again it's something it's not

1223
00:38:57,109 --> 00:38:55,520
always gold that's buried in the ground

1224
00:38:59,190 --> 00:38:57,119
but it's the idea of something special

1225
00:39:00,630 --> 00:38:59,200
something valuable being in the ground

1226
00:39:02,550 --> 00:39:00,640
yes and again

1227
00:39:04,150 --> 00:39:02,560
that's a common folkloric trope not only

1228
00:39:05,349 --> 00:39:04,160
the monster or the dragon guarding

1229
00:39:07,109 --> 00:39:05,359
buried treasure but also

1230
00:39:09,190 --> 00:39:07,119
fairies and ghosts which have multiple

1231
00:39:09,750 --> 00:39:09,200
points of correlation with these bigfoot

1232
00:39:12,230 --> 00:39:09,760
sightings

1233
00:39:14,310 --> 00:39:12,240
would often be found lurking around

1234
00:39:15,430 --> 00:39:14,320
these sites of buried treasure i was

1235
00:39:16,550 --> 00:39:15,440
astonished to find

1236
00:39:18,470 --> 00:39:16,560
not only this correlation which is

1237
00:39:20,069 --> 00:39:18,480
another so every now and then

1238
00:39:21,589 --> 00:39:20,079
every now and then tim comes to me with

1239
00:39:22,790 --> 00:39:21,599
this thing oh yeah yeah bigfoot and

1240
00:39:23,109 --> 00:39:22,800
buried treasure there's a connection

1241
00:39:25,349 --> 00:39:23,119
there

1242
00:39:26,790 --> 00:39:25,359
like what are you talking about and then

1243
00:39:28,230 --> 00:39:26,800
i look into it i'm like oh yeah tim

1244
00:39:29,589 --> 00:39:28,240
you're exactly right so while not

1245
00:39:31,349 --> 00:39:29,599
explicitly buried treasure the idea of

1246
00:39:33,109 --> 00:39:31,359
like mine shafts and whatnot

1247
00:39:34,390 --> 00:39:33,119
and i was surprised to find that that is

1248
00:39:35,670 --> 00:39:34,400
not only consistent

1249
00:39:37,750 --> 00:39:35,680
in several cases that we have in the

1250
00:39:39,270 --> 00:39:37,760
book but also the most famous of

1251
00:39:40,870 --> 00:39:39,280
you know north american treasures oak

1252
00:39:43,750 --> 00:39:40,880
island also has

1253
00:39:45,349 --> 00:39:43,760
basically a bigfoot that appeared during

1254
00:39:46,069 --> 00:39:45,359
what sounds like a sleep paralysis

1255
00:39:47,510 --> 00:39:46,079
incident

1256
00:39:49,270 --> 00:39:47,520
to one of the night watchmen and said

1257
00:39:50,950 --> 00:39:49,280
you know you've got to leave

1258
00:39:53,589 --> 00:39:50,960
this bigfoot sitting on his chest it's

1259
00:39:54,950 --> 00:39:53,599
like that's just strange sleep paralysis

1260
00:39:57,589 --> 00:39:54,960
and buried treasure and

1261
00:40:00,390 --> 00:39:57,599
this large hairy man thing appearing all

1262
00:40:03,190 --> 00:40:00,400
in the same spot it's just wild

1263
00:40:04,870 --> 00:40:03,200
it is it is and didn't that guy say it

1264
00:40:06,790 --> 00:40:04,880
was the only thing that ever scared him

1265
00:40:08,950 --> 00:40:06,800
he descended into alcoholism and

1266
00:40:10,870 --> 00:40:08,960
eventually killed himself

1267
00:40:12,870 --> 00:40:10,880
yes so he was originally a treasure

1268
00:40:14,710 --> 00:40:12,880
hunter himself and he had

1269
00:40:16,230 --> 00:40:14,720
an associate of his die after hitting a

1270
00:40:17,349 --> 00:40:16,240
pocket of gas while looking for the oak

1271
00:40:19,910 --> 00:40:17,359
island treasure

1272
00:40:21,990 --> 00:40:19,920
and he was kept on as a night watchman

1273
00:40:24,710 --> 00:40:22,000
and one night

1274
00:40:25,670 --> 00:40:24,720
around 11 or 12 o'clock he had this fire

1275
00:40:27,030 --> 00:40:25,680
going and he

1276
00:40:28,790 --> 00:40:27,040
woke up and he couldn't breathe and

1277
00:40:30,309 --> 00:40:28,800
there were these two giant red eyes

1278
00:40:32,150 --> 00:40:30,319
staring in his face and the red eyes

1279
00:40:35,670 --> 00:40:32,160
were attached to this

1280
00:40:37,349 --> 00:40:35,680
curly haired covered entity that said

1281
00:40:38,790 --> 00:40:37,359
you know don't ever come back it smiled

1282
00:40:39,349 --> 00:40:38,800
at him and it just you know blinked out

1283
00:40:41,910 --> 00:40:39,359
of sight

1284
00:40:43,190 --> 00:40:41,920
and after that he did have some serious

1285
00:40:45,030 --> 00:40:43,200
problems with

1286
00:40:47,109 --> 00:40:45,040
you know anxiety and depression and

1287
00:40:48,710 --> 00:40:47,119
alcoholism which ties into another thing

1288
00:40:50,390 --> 00:40:48,720
that you see that a lot of

1289
00:40:51,910 --> 00:40:50,400
flesh and blood cryptozoid just like to

1290
00:40:53,829 --> 00:40:51,920
sort of poo poo is this idea that there

1291
00:40:55,349 --> 00:40:53,839
might be some sort of bigfoot curse that

1292
00:40:57,990 --> 00:40:55,359
seeing or interacting with bigfoot

1293
00:40:58,950 --> 00:40:58,000
might manifest and it's something of a

1294
00:41:00,950 --> 00:40:58,960
trope

1295
00:41:02,550 --> 00:41:00,960
that you have to sort of broaden your

1296
00:41:04,470 --> 00:41:02,560
your interpretation

1297
00:41:06,230 --> 00:41:04,480
of what a curse might be and then you

1298
00:41:07,270 --> 00:41:06,240
start to it starts to come into focus a

1299
00:41:08,710 --> 00:41:07,280
little bit better

1300
00:41:10,069 --> 00:41:08,720
you know a lot of people say oh well

1301
00:41:10,790 --> 00:41:10,079
people see sasquatch all the time and

1302
00:41:12,550 --> 00:41:10,800
don't die

1303
00:41:13,990 --> 00:41:12,560
well yes but people also see sasquatch

1304
00:41:16,630 --> 00:41:14,000
all the time and their lives are forever

1305
00:41:18,069 --> 00:41:16,640
changed you have people who have

1306
00:41:19,670 --> 00:41:18,079
tens of thousands of dollars of hunting

1307
00:41:20,950 --> 00:41:19,680
equipment never wanting to go back into

1308
00:41:21,990 --> 00:41:20,960
the forest i think they would consider

1309
00:41:23,750 --> 00:41:22,000
that a curse

1310
00:41:25,190 --> 00:41:23,760
in addition to stuff like alcoholism

1311
00:41:25,750 --> 00:41:25,200
which is a very common thing people you

1312
00:41:29,270 --> 00:41:25,760
know

1313
00:41:31,430 --> 00:41:29,280
being overturned by seeing these things

1314
00:41:33,270 --> 00:41:31,440
and again you find this in fairy

1315
00:41:34,550 --> 00:41:33,280
folklore as well the idea that you

1316
00:41:35,750 --> 00:41:34,560
actually wouldn't even call them fairies

1317
00:41:37,030 --> 00:41:35,760
you'd call them the good people or the

1318
00:41:40,150 --> 00:41:37,040
we folk or something

1319
00:41:41,910 --> 00:41:40,160
you find a precedent for that as well in

1320
00:41:43,990 --> 00:41:41,920
certain tribes and for example alaska

1321
00:41:45,589 --> 00:41:44,000
who don't necessarily refer to

1322
00:41:47,030 --> 00:41:45,599
their bigfoot analogs by name either

1323
00:41:48,630 --> 00:41:47,040
they use euphemisms

1324
00:41:50,069 --> 00:41:48,640
for their bigfoot as well because

1325
00:41:50,790 --> 00:41:50,079
they're afraid of you know invoking

1326
00:41:52,390 --> 00:41:50,800
their wrath

1327
00:41:55,349 --> 00:41:52,400
so you know motifically these things

1328
00:41:57,750 --> 00:41:55,359
just keep on lining up

1329
00:41:58,470 --> 00:41:57,760
yeah great points and tim i think you're

1330
00:42:00,550 --> 00:41:58,480
right to

1331
00:42:02,470 --> 00:42:00,560
ask what's in the ground around here i

1332
00:42:04,309 --> 00:42:02,480
think that's an awesome

1333
00:42:06,710 --> 00:42:04,319
first question when you're investigating

1334
00:42:08,870 --> 00:42:06,720
stuff and there is so much unknown

1335
00:42:09,589 --> 00:42:08,880
history especially here in the states i

1336
00:42:12,069 --> 00:42:09,599
mean we've got

1337
00:42:12,630 --> 00:42:12,079
probably mass graves we don't know about

1338
00:42:15,109 --> 00:42:12,640
there's

1339
00:42:16,950 --> 00:42:15,119
magic mounds that we've dismissed as

1340
00:42:17,990 --> 00:42:16,960
nothing and of course that's another

1341
00:42:20,550 --> 00:42:18,000
aspect of

1342
00:42:22,390 --> 00:42:20,560
the unknown history is our attitudes

1343
00:42:24,470 --> 00:42:22,400
towards the native people who were here

1344
00:42:24,870 --> 00:42:24,480
that's definitely colored this research

1345
00:42:27,030 --> 00:42:24,880
and

1346
00:42:28,470 --> 00:42:27,040
you have some native american stories in

1347
00:42:31,510 --> 00:42:28,480
the book that are great

1348
00:42:32,790 --> 00:42:31,520
that you could imagine 100 years ago

1349
00:42:35,349 --> 00:42:32,800
were probably

1350
00:42:35,829 --> 00:42:35,359
not taken with the same weight that we

1351
00:42:38,230 --> 00:42:35,839
would

1352
00:42:39,510 --> 00:42:38,240
read them today so there's all kinds of

1353
00:42:41,190 --> 00:42:39,520
stuff that

1354
00:42:43,349 --> 00:42:41,200
is going to make it hard to solve this

1355
00:42:45,589 --> 00:42:43,359
problem or solve this puzzle

1356
00:42:47,510 --> 00:42:45,599
when we just don't even know so many

1357
00:42:50,470 --> 00:42:47,520
aspects of the history which might play

1358
00:42:54,069 --> 00:42:50,480
a real role in what the hell is going on

1359
00:42:56,069 --> 00:42:54,079
yeah absolutely josh dug into

1360
00:42:57,990 --> 00:42:56,079
the native american folklore a little

1361
00:43:01,190 --> 00:42:58,000
bit more than i did

1362
00:43:03,430 --> 00:43:01,200
our problem with that i think

1363
00:43:04,550 --> 00:43:03,440
when approaching this book well was

1364
00:43:08,710 --> 00:43:04,560
probably multifold

1365
00:43:10,470 --> 00:43:08,720
or manifold rather but part of it was

1366
00:43:12,470 --> 00:43:10,480
people tend to treat native american

1367
00:43:14,790 --> 00:43:12,480
culture monolithically

1368
00:43:16,710 --> 00:43:14,800
you know native americans believe this

1369
00:43:19,030 --> 00:43:16,720
and they'll give you a blanket

1370
00:43:20,630 --> 00:43:19,040
for me more than that it was the

1371
00:43:23,670 --> 00:43:20,640
tendency for flesh and blood

1372
00:43:24,470 --> 00:43:23,680
bigfoot researchers to just use the

1373
00:43:27,910 --> 00:43:24,480
names

1374
00:43:29,829 --> 00:43:27,920
had for

1375
00:43:31,030 --> 00:43:29,839
whatever their wild man was the you know

1376
00:43:32,710 --> 00:43:31,040
the big hairy thing that lived in the

1377
00:43:36,150 --> 00:43:32,720
forest next to them whether it was oma

1378
00:43:37,829 --> 00:43:36,160
or sasquatch or any number of these you

1379
00:43:38,630 --> 00:43:37,839
know native names they'd love to do that

1380
00:43:40,870 --> 00:43:38,640
because

1381
00:43:42,470 --> 00:43:40,880
look native americans were talking about

1382
00:43:44,309 --> 00:43:42,480
these creatures before we ever got here

1383
00:43:47,510 --> 00:43:44,319
and they had a name for them

1384
00:43:49,270 --> 00:43:47,520
but they completely edit out

1385
00:43:50,710 --> 00:43:49,280
anything when these same native

1386
00:43:51,430 --> 00:43:50,720
americans would say yeah but these

1387
00:43:52,950 --> 00:43:51,440
creatures

1388
00:43:54,870 --> 00:43:52,960
come from another world or they have

1389
00:43:57,510 --> 00:43:54,880
magic powers or

1390
00:43:58,630 --> 00:43:57,520
yes they're another type of indian a big

1391
00:44:01,430 --> 00:43:58,640
harry indian but

1392
00:44:03,270 --> 00:44:01,440
they also have these special abilities

1393
00:44:05,430 --> 00:44:03,280
that they can do this this and this

1394
00:44:06,390 --> 00:44:05,440
so these aspects are just not talked

1395
00:44:08,950 --> 00:44:06,400
about

1396
00:44:10,390 --> 00:44:08,960
again it's the selective editing to use

1397
00:44:11,510 --> 00:44:10,400
anything that makes it seem like a

1398
00:44:13,829 --> 00:44:11,520
natural creature

1399
00:44:15,589 --> 00:44:13,839
and take out anything else and it's a

1400
00:44:18,630 --> 00:44:15,599
real failing i think

1401
00:44:19,510 --> 00:44:18,640
of looking back at any historical

1402
00:44:22,069 --> 00:44:19,520
culture

1403
00:44:23,510 --> 00:44:22,079
whether it be native american or through

1404
00:44:25,910 --> 00:44:23,520
european folklore

1405
00:44:26,950 --> 00:44:25,920
and say well they knew what they were

1406
00:44:28,470 --> 00:44:26,960
talking about when they were talking

1407
00:44:29,430 --> 00:44:28,480
about you know a natural creature like a

1408
00:44:31,670 --> 00:44:29,440
wolf

1409
00:44:33,190 --> 00:44:31,680
but when they saw this wild man and they

1410
00:44:34,470 --> 00:44:33,200
said it you know just disappeared but

1411
00:44:36,870 --> 00:44:34,480
they didn't know what they're looking at

1412
00:44:38,150 --> 00:44:36,880
they were dumb back then they were naive

1413
00:44:41,430 --> 00:44:38,160
primitive people

1414
00:44:42,790 --> 00:44:41,440
so i i think that's a real failing of

1415
00:44:44,870 --> 00:44:42,800
looking at this stuff through any

1416
00:44:46,550 --> 00:44:44,880
traditional culture well but tim

1417
00:44:48,470 --> 00:44:46,560
i'm very hesitant to try out the word

1418
00:44:50,309 --> 00:44:48,480
racism for everything like it feels like

1419
00:44:52,550 --> 00:44:50,319
it is sometimes but

1420
00:44:54,309 --> 00:44:52,560
there is a racist component i think in

1421
00:44:56,069 --> 00:44:54,319
the way that a lot of cryptozoologists

1422
00:44:57,990 --> 00:44:56,079
treat these stories of bigfoot similarly

1423
00:44:59,349 --> 00:44:58,000
to the way that people treat

1424
00:45:01,510 --> 00:44:59,359
the ancient cultures in the ancient

1425
00:45:02,309 --> 00:45:01,520
aliens sort of sphere they automatically

1426
00:45:03,910 --> 00:45:02,319
assume that

1427
00:45:05,190 --> 00:45:03,920
you know these people who have this

1428
00:45:07,030 --> 00:45:05,200
better understanding of the natural

1429
00:45:09,829 --> 00:45:07,040
world than we do quite honestly

1430
00:45:11,910 --> 00:45:09,839
couldn't make the cut between the real

1431
00:45:13,030 --> 00:45:11,920
world and the supernatural world

1432
00:45:14,790 --> 00:45:13,040
the idea that oh they must have been

1433
00:45:15,829 --> 00:45:14,800
misinterpreting it you know they're that

1434
00:45:17,750 --> 00:45:15,839
they've been able to

1435
00:45:19,109 --> 00:45:17,760
you know machine these stone blocks to

1436
00:45:20,710 --> 00:45:19,119
such precision but when they said that

1437
00:45:21,510 --> 00:45:20,720
this was supernatural no they must have

1438
00:45:23,510 --> 00:45:21,520
been talking about

1439
00:45:24,550 --> 00:45:23,520
spacemen or maybe it was just

1440
00:45:26,790 --> 00:45:24,560
supernatural

1441
00:45:28,230 --> 00:45:26,800
you know so similarly with you know

1442
00:45:30,069 --> 00:45:28,240
native american cultures and

1443
00:45:32,150 --> 00:45:30,079
i did my best when writing this to

1444
00:45:34,150 --> 00:45:32,160
really specifically call tribes by their

1445
00:45:37,030 --> 00:45:34,160
specific names to identify their

1446
00:45:38,710 --> 00:45:37,040
beliefs as accurately as i could there's

1447
00:45:39,190 --> 00:45:38,720
a similar problem where you say well

1448
00:45:41,829 --> 00:45:39,200
yeah

1449
00:45:43,430 --> 00:45:41,839
they knew that this deer wasn't you know

1450
00:45:45,589 --> 00:45:43,440
magically phasing in out of dimensions

1451
00:45:47,270 --> 00:45:45,599
but they said that bigfoot was but they

1452
00:45:48,950 --> 00:45:47,280
didn't realize how stealthy bigfoot was

1453
00:45:51,190 --> 00:45:48,960
bigfoot's a forest ninja

1454
00:45:52,069 --> 00:45:51,200
it's like or they're telling you exactly

1455
00:45:55,190 --> 00:45:52,079
what was going on

1456
00:45:56,390 --> 00:45:55,200
you know yeah yeah it's so true good

1457
00:45:58,470 --> 00:45:56,400
points guys and

1458
00:45:59,910 --> 00:45:58,480
there is an account in the book that i

1459
00:46:01,349 --> 00:45:59,920
did want to highlight for a couple of

1460
00:46:03,510 --> 00:46:01,359
reasons one it does touch

1461
00:46:05,510 --> 00:46:03,520
on the fact that many native american

1462
00:46:06,710 --> 00:46:05,520
tribes seemed to have found a better

1463
00:46:09,190 --> 00:46:06,720
context for

1464
00:46:09,990 --> 00:46:09,200
bigfoot than we even have today and it's

1465
00:46:12,230 --> 00:46:10,000
in a cave

1466
00:46:14,470 --> 00:46:12,240
and it also comes from the late great

1467
00:46:16,309 --> 00:46:14,480
brad steger you know pour one out in his

1468
00:46:19,670 --> 00:46:16,319
honor brad was the man

1469
00:46:23,109 --> 00:46:19,680
but an 1888 diary

1470
00:46:25,190 --> 00:46:23,119
shared with brad has an entry where the

1471
00:46:27,670 --> 00:46:25,200
diarist observed a tribesman in

1472
00:46:27,990 --> 00:46:27,680
california taking plates of raw meat

1473
00:46:31,190 --> 00:46:28,000
into

1474
00:46:33,829 --> 00:46:31,200
a cave for an enormous docile hairy

1475
00:46:36,470 --> 00:46:33,839
beast the tribesman called crazy bear

1476
00:46:37,750 --> 00:46:36,480
he said it arrived on earth when a quote

1477
00:46:39,990 --> 00:46:37,760
small moon

1478
00:46:41,030 --> 00:46:40,000
piloted by humans descended from the

1479
00:46:44,230 --> 00:46:41,040
stars

1480
00:46:46,150 --> 00:46:44,240
it's like wow that's something i wish we

1481
00:46:47,109 --> 00:46:46,160
could ask a few follow-up questions on

1482
00:46:48,790 --> 00:46:47,119
right

1483
00:46:50,470 --> 00:46:48,800
yeah absolutely but at the same time you

1484
00:46:51,910 --> 00:46:50,480
know it's one of those stories you find

1485
00:46:53,750 --> 00:46:51,920
similar stories throughout

1486
00:46:55,190 --> 00:46:53,760
many different tribes describing these

1487
00:46:57,109 --> 00:46:55,200
as being i mean for lack of a better

1488
00:46:58,230 --> 00:46:57,119
term you know extraterrestrial pets or

1489
00:46:59,670 --> 00:46:58,240
what we would probably call

1490
00:47:01,510 --> 00:46:59,680
extraterrestrial pets

1491
00:47:02,790 --> 00:47:01,520
you know it's no no real surprise to

1492
00:47:04,069 --> 00:47:02,800
anybody who's listened to my previous

1493
00:47:07,750 --> 00:47:04,079
interviews on thc

1494
00:47:08,790 --> 00:47:07,760
that i am not especially

1495
00:47:10,550 --> 00:47:08,800
affectionate towards the

1496
00:47:12,309 --> 00:47:10,560
extraterrestrial hypothesis so i still

1497
00:47:13,990 --> 00:47:12,319
think that this is probably describing

1498
00:47:15,589 --> 00:47:14,000
in my mind at least where i am right now

1499
00:47:16,630 --> 00:47:15,599
some degree of spirit phenomena but you

1500
00:47:18,630 --> 00:47:16,640
can't

1501
00:47:20,230 --> 00:47:18,640
ignore the fact that a small moon

1502
00:47:22,790 --> 00:47:20,240
piloted by people from the stars sounds

1503
00:47:24,470 --> 00:47:22,800
a lot like a spacecraft

1504
00:47:26,069 --> 00:47:24,480
but you'll find that you know these

1505
00:47:26,790 --> 00:47:26,079
different craft described in these

1506
00:47:28,950 --> 00:47:26,800
different tribes

1507
00:47:30,950 --> 00:47:28,960
like these large white birds or these

1508
00:47:33,349 --> 00:47:30,960
large lights that leave these

1509
00:47:34,470 --> 00:47:33,359
giant hairy things behind does that mean

1510
00:47:36,069 --> 00:47:34,480
that you know bigfoot is an

1511
00:47:37,750 --> 00:47:36,079
extraterrestrial scout

1512
00:47:39,430 --> 00:47:37,760
i don't know but there are plenty of

1513
00:47:41,910 --> 00:47:39,440
overlaps with

1514
00:47:43,670 --> 00:47:41,920
sasquatch sightings and what we would

1515
00:47:45,430 --> 00:47:43,680
call the alien abduction experience

1516
00:47:47,750 --> 00:47:45,440
some that i had really no idea were as

1517
00:47:48,549 --> 00:47:47,760
prevalent as they are until i really got

1518
00:47:51,109 --> 00:47:48,559
into it but

1519
00:47:52,549 --> 00:47:51,119
things like livestock mutilation

1520
00:47:54,150 --> 00:47:52,559
something that just blew my mind was the

1521
00:47:55,750 --> 00:47:54,160
number of times that people have missing

1522
00:47:56,950 --> 00:47:55,760
time in conjunction with their bigfoot

1523
00:47:59,990 --> 00:47:56,960
sightings you know there was a

1524
00:48:01,030 --> 00:48:00,000
famous podcaster the host of sasquatch

1525
00:48:03,190 --> 00:48:01,040
chronicles

1526
00:48:04,390 --> 00:48:03,200
when he first had his sighting with his

1527
00:48:05,430 --> 00:48:04,400
brother they were convinced that the

1528
00:48:08,230 --> 00:48:05,440
entire thing should have

1529
00:48:09,510 --> 00:48:08,240
maybe at max taking about 40 minutes and

1530
00:48:11,510 --> 00:48:09,520
then they got down the mountain and they

1531
00:48:13,670 --> 00:48:11,520
found out that three hours had elapsed

1532
00:48:15,030 --> 00:48:13,680
which is pretty chilling but completely

1533
00:48:16,790 --> 00:48:15,040
consistent with

1534
00:48:18,790 --> 00:48:16,800
the alien abduction experience and

1535
00:48:19,910 --> 00:48:18,800
before that these visitors to fairyland

1536
00:48:21,510 --> 00:48:19,920
who thought that they were you know

1537
00:48:22,069 --> 00:48:21,520
dancing for three minutes inside a fairy

1538
00:48:24,309 --> 00:48:22,079
circle and

1539
00:48:26,470 --> 00:48:24,319
it actually been three days you find

1540
00:48:30,150 --> 00:48:26,480
these stories of bigfoot missing time

1541
00:48:31,190 --> 00:48:30,160
actually are not as uncommon as one

1542
00:48:32,950 --> 00:48:31,200
would assume

1543
00:48:34,230 --> 00:48:32,960
some people try to explain this away by

1544
00:48:35,510 --> 00:48:34,240
saying oh well when you're under you

1545
00:48:37,670 --> 00:48:35,520
know tense situations

1546
00:48:39,109 --> 00:48:37,680
time seems to speed up but literally

1547
00:48:41,109 --> 00:48:39,119
laboratory experiments on time

1548
00:48:42,309 --> 00:48:41,119
perception show that the exact opposite

1549
00:48:43,910 --> 00:48:42,319
is true

1550
00:48:45,270 --> 00:48:43,920
stress actually tends to slow down one's

1551
00:48:46,150 --> 00:48:45,280
perception of time anybody's been in a

1552
00:48:49,829 --> 00:48:46,160
car accident

1553
00:48:53,030 --> 00:48:49,839
can attest to that fact yes well

1554
00:48:55,670 --> 00:48:53,040
man the alien pet hypothesis

1555
00:48:56,470 --> 00:48:55,680
might be my new favorite and you know if

1556
00:48:58,950 --> 00:48:56,480
we were

1557
00:49:00,950 --> 00:48:58,960
engineered as a slave species as some

1558
00:49:01,990 --> 00:49:00,960
people say well these aliens might have

1559
00:49:05,109 --> 00:49:02,000
kept some around

1560
00:49:07,670 --> 00:49:05,119
to run the ships or the program could

1561
00:49:09,750 --> 00:49:07,680
also still be going on

1562
00:49:12,390 --> 00:49:09,760
or or you know maybe when this maybe

1563
00:49:13,670 --> 00:49:12,400
when space bigfoot go feral they lose

1564
00:49:15,030 --> 00:49:13,680
all their hair and they become human

1565
00:49:17,750 --> 00:49:15,040
beings

1566
00:49:18,470 --> 00:49:17,760
who knows right a lot of possibilities

1567
00:49:20,790 --> 00:49:18,480
and

1568
00:49:23,030 --> 00:49:20,800
so here is a question for each of you

1569
00:49:24,790 --> 00:49:23,040
but this book is largely about

1570
00:49:26,309 --> 00:49:24,800
taking this bigfoot research

1571
00:49:28,950 --> 00:49:26,319
conversation forward

1572
00:49:32,230 --> 00:49:28,960
and bucking the same old bigfoot 101

1573
00:49:35,030 --> 00:49:32,240
stuff what would you guys consider to be

1574
00:49:35,510 --> 00:49:35,040
the most cutting edge thoughts and ideas

1575
00:49:41,349 --> 00:49:35,520
on

1576
00:49:47,670 --> 00:49:45,430
oh boy josh

1577
00:49:49,030 --> 00:49:47,680
outside of the alien pet hypothesis of

1578
00:49:52,390 --> 00:49:49,040
course

1579
00:49:54,069 --> 00:49:52,400
yeah i mean there's so much going on

1580
00:49:56,790 --> 00:49:54,079
with this you know from from the idea of

1581
00:49:59,430 --> 00:49:56,800
interdimensional stuff to

1582
00:50:00,630 --> 00:49:59,440
people like ron moorhead who i like a

1583
00:50:03,670 --> 00:50:00,640
great deal and

1584
00:50:04,870 --> 00:50:03,680
he's done some fantastic work but his

1585
00:50:07,750 --> 00:50:04,880
attempts to use

1586
00:50:08,069 --> 00:50:07,760
quantum physics to explain how bigfoot

1587
00:50:10,309 --> 00:50:08,079
could

1588
00:50:12,470 --> 00:50:10,319
still be a natural creature and do all

1589
00:50:14,790 --> 00:50:12,480
these weird things

1590
00:50:15,910 --> 00:50:14,800
which again ron's done some incredible

1591
00:50:19,190 --> 00:50:15,920
work but i just think

1592
00:50:20,710 --> 00:50:19,200
quantum physics is a little bit deeper i

1593
00:50:23,349 --> 00:50:20,720
think than most people grasp

1594
00:50:25,270 --> 00:50:23,359
and with most people's understanding of

1595
00:50:28,309 --> 00:50:25,280
quantum physics you might as well say

1596
00:50:29,589 --> 00:50:28,319
it's magic josh had a great quote

1597
00:50:31,510 --> 00:50:29,599
that he thought i said which i

1598
00:50:33,270 --> 00:50:31,520
absolutely did not someone said it

1599
00:50:34,710 --> 00:50:33,280
that if you think you understand quantum

1600
00:50:35,430 --> 00:50:34,720
physics you don't understand quantum

1601
00:50:38,710 --> 00:50:35,440
physics

1602
00:50:40,630 --> 00:50:38,720
it's something along those lines but

1603
00:50:42,309 --> 00:50:40,640
we remain very agnostic on these

1604
00:50:45,750 --> 00:50:42,319
different theories because

1605
00:50:48,549 --> 00:50:45,760
at the end of the day we don't know

1606
00:50:49,670 --> 00:50:48,559
the most exciting stuff for me is

1607
00:50:51,349 --> 00:50:49,680
probably

1608
00:50:53,190 --> 00:50:51,359
like what patrick harper is doing with

1609
00:50:55,910 --> 00:50:53,200
the idea of these demons

1610
00:50:57,670 --> 00:50:55,920
as he would call it for me it's a little

1611
00:50:59,910 --> 00:50:57,680
bit more young and i guess the wildman

1612
00:51:02,390 --> 00:50:59,920
archetype the idea that

1613
00:51:03,990 --> 00:51:02,400
it's just something other that's always

1614
00:51:07,030 --> 00:51:04,000
been next to us

1615
00:51:08,870 --> 00:51:07,040
and that's probably where i'm going

1616
00:51:10,549 --> 00:51:08,880
in the future of the stuff the idea that

1617
00:51:13,109 --> 00:51:10,559
the wildman archetype is

1618
00:51:14,630 --> 00:51:13,119
very exciting to me but who knows maybe

1619
00:51:15,829 --> 00:51:14,640
someday we can get some kind of proof

1620
00:51:17,270 --> 00:51:15,839
that this thing is stepping out of

1621
00:51:18,790 --> 00:51:17,280
another dimension or

1622
00:51:20,309 --> 00:51:18,800
aliens are dropping them off and so

1623
00:51:22,710 --> 00:51:20,319
forth but that's why

1624
00:51:24,470 --> 00:51:22,720
again josh and i remain pretty agnostic

1625
00:51:25,589 --> 00:51:24,480
no point in this book or in volume 2 are

1626
00:51:27,190 --> 00:51:25,599
you going to hear us

1627
00:51:29,190 --> 00:51:27,200
say well bigfoot comes from another

1628
00:51:31,589 --> 00:51:29,200
dimension or a bigfoot is an alien or

1629
00:51:33,190 --> 00:51:31,599
bigfoot is a ghost it's just we're not

1630
00:51:35,829 --> 00:51:33,200
saying that we're just pointing out

1631
00:51:37,430 --> 00:51:35,839
how these things are like how bigfoot

1632
00:51:37,990 --> 00:51:37,440
does act like a ghost or act like a

1633
00:51:41,750 --> 00:51:38,000
witch

1634
00:51:44,710 --> 00:51:41,760
etc for me whenever you get people who

1635
00:51:46,150 --> 00:51:44,720
are unafraid of pushing against

1636
00:51:47,589 --> 00:51:46,160
materialist explanations

1637
00:51:49,270 --> 00:51:47,599
that's the route that i want to go down

1638
00:51:50,870 --> 00:51:49,280
because again we mentioned

1639
00:51:53,349 --> 00:51:50,880
ron moorhead who again has done some

1640
00:51:54,870 --> 00:51:53,359
great work but in trying to invoke

1641
00:51:56,630 --> 00:51:54,880
quantum physics he's still playing the

1642
00:51:58,470 --> 00:51:56,640
materialist game which i think that

1643
00:51:59,829 --> 00:51:58,480
i mean you know as somebody who listens

1644
00:52:01,589 --> 00:51:59,839
to thc

1645
00:52:03,750 --> 00:52:01,599
that doesn't cut it anymore trying to

1646
00:52:05,430 --> 00:52:03,760
chase that materialist rabbit

1647
00:52:07,270 --> 00:52:05,440
so for me i think that if you look at

1648
00:52:10,069 --> 00:52:07,280
people who are

1649
00:52:11,109 --> 00:52:10,079
longitudinal long-term experiencers

1650
00:52:12,470 --> 00:52:11,119
those are the

1651
00:52:14,790 --> 00:52:12,480
the people that i find most interesting

1652
00:52:17,510 --> 00:52:14,800
for volume two tim and i both took

1653
00:52:18,230 --> 00:52:17,520
an individual in their particular

1654
00:52:20,230 --> 00:52:18,240
experiences

1655
00:52:22,150 --> 00:52:20,240
as a case study and sort of like laid

1656
00:52:25,190 --> 00:52:22,160
out to people who have had

1657
00:52:26,950 --> 00:52:25,200
basically like the quintessential weird

1658
00:52:28,870 --> 00:52:26,960
bigfoot experiences that tie on all

1659
00:52:30,150 --> 00:52:28,880
sorts of things like you know ufos and

1660
00:52:32,470 --> 00:52:30,160
portals and the dead and

1661
00:52:35,030 --> 00:52:32,480
telepathy and all these things and i

1662
00:52:37,190 --> 00:52:35,040
think that that's really where for me

1663
00:52:38,470 --> 00:52:37,200
this research should be going that's the

1664
00:52:40,870 --> 00:52:38,480
next frontier

1665
00:52:42,069 --> 00:52:40,880
having said that there's a growing

1666
00:52:45,670 --> 00:52:42,079
acceptance of using

1667
00:52:49,030 --> 00:52:45,680
voice box or spirit box or ghost box

1668
00:52:51,190 --> 00:52:49,040
devices in bigfoot research and they're

1669
00:52:52,790 --> 00:52:51,200
getting some interesting results of that

1670
00:52:53,349 --> 00:52:52,800
sort of being a way to communicate with

1671
00:52:55,829 --> 00:52:53,359
something

1672
00:52:57,349 --> 00:52:55,839
that sometimes says it's bigfoot is it i

1673
00:52:58,710 --> 00:52:57,359
don't know i mean as tim pointed out one

1674
00:53:00,230 --> 00:52:58,720
time you know that could be your

1675
00:53:01,990 --> 00:53:00,240
subconscious saying

1676
00:53:04,230 --> 00:53:02,000
that it's bigfoot you could be you could

1677
00:53:06,470 --> 00:53:04,240
be the one manifesting that yourself

1678
00:53:07,990 --> 00:53:06,480
so yeah but i think that thinking about

1679
00:53:10,630 --> 00:53:08,000
these things obliquely

1680
00:53:11,510 --> 00:53:10,640
and drawing on tools from other

1681
00:53:14,150 --> 00:53:11,520
disciplines like

1682
00:53:14,790 --> 00:53:14,160
ghost hunting i think is probably going

1683
00:53:17,750 --> 00:53:14,800
to yield

1684
00:53:19,109 --> 00:53:17,760
more successful results than a lot of

1685
00:53:22,390 --> 00:53:19,119
people who are tied up in the flesh and

1686
00:53:24,230 --> 00:53:22,400
blood hypothesis would like to admit

1687
00:53:25,670 --> 00:53:24,240
i like both those answers yeah maybe it

1688
00:53:28,630 --> 00:53:25,680
is just being

1689
00:53:30,390 --> 00:53:28,640
unbiased and open to all possibilities

1690
00:53:34,069 --> 00:53:30,400
and taking an honest look

1691
00:53:35,030 --> 00:53:34,079
at the comparison to wider paranormal

1692
00:53:37,270 --> 00:53:35,040
themes and just

1693
00:53:39,750 --> 00:53:37,280
not trying to force anything to fit but

1694
00:53:42,470 --> 00:53:39,760
being honest about things that do

1695
00:53:43,589 --> 00:53:42,480
yeah i mean you know i used to say maybe

1696
00:53:46,150 --> 00:53:43,599
they'll roll a body

1697
00:53:47,430 --> 00:53:46,160
into a lab one day and my job will

1698
00:53:49,430 --> 00:53:47,440
become easier

1699
00:53:51,430 --> 00:53:49,440
but i've adjusted that way of thinking

1700
00:53:52,950 --> 00:53:51,440
because even if they roll a body in a

1701
00:53:53,510 --> 00:53:52,960
lab one day we still have a lot to

1702
00:53:55,190 --> 00:53:53,520
explain

1703
00:53:57,030 --> 00:53:55,200
why do these weird lights pop up around

1704
00:53:58,150 --> 00:53:57,040
this thing that you've now rolled a body

1705
00:53:59,430 --> 00:53:58,160
into a lab

1706
00:54:01,430 --> 00:53:59,440
i don't have a lot of confidence that

1707
00:54:03,990 --> 00:54:01,440
that's ever going to happen because

1708
00:54:05,190 --> 00:54:04,000
as i get into in volume 2 there's been

1709
00:54:07,750 --> 00:54:05,200
many many people who've

1710
00:54:09,349 --> 00:54:07,760
claimed to have capture or killed one of

1711
00:54:12,069 --> 00:54:09,359
these creatures over the years and

1712
00:54:13,109 --> 00:54:12,079
without exception 100 of the time the

1713
00:54:14,710 --> 00:54:13,119
bodies are gone

1714
00:54:16,630 --> 00:54:14,720
they're missing they're unavailable to

1715
00:54:18,230 --> 00:54:16,640
us whether it's

1716
00:54:19,990 --> 00:54:18,240
they're taken back by the creatures

1717
00:54:21,910 --> 00:54:20,000
supposedly you know

1718
00:54:23,990 --> 00:54:21,920
and buried or whatever bigfoot is

1719
00:54:26,150 --> 00:54:24,000
supposed to do with their dead or a

1720
00:54:27,829 --> 00:54:26,160
mysterious black van pulls up and

1721
00:54:29,270 --> 00:54:27,839
takes the body away or you know a

1722
00:54:31,109 --> 00:54:29,280
spaceship comes and

1723
00:54:32,870 --> 00:54:31,119
levitates the body into a ufo or

1724
00:54:34,390 --> 00:54:32,880
whatever whatever the case however they

1725
00:54:37,030 --> 00:54:34,400
disappear it doesn't matter

1726
00:54:38,789 --> 00:54:37,040
the bodies are gone 100 of them are gone

1727
00:54:40,470 --> 00:54:38,799
so i don't have any real

1728
00:54:42,789 --> 00:54:40,480
confidence that we're ever going to have

1729
00:54:44,470 --> 00:54:42,799
a body at least not for any significant

1730
00:54:47,270 --> 00:54:44,480
amount of time

1731
00:54:48,390 --> 00:54:47,280
i agree with you i do get the sense that

1732
00:54:50,390 --> 00:54:48,400
there is

1733
00:54:52,470 --> 00:54:50,400
something bleeding in from another

1734
00:54:55,430 --> 00:54:52,480
dimension of some sorts and

1735
00:54:57,270 --> 00:54:55,440
sometimes the window can close and

1736
00:54:58,069 --> 00:54:57,280
something can get stuck here but i feel

1737
00:55:00,549 --> 00:54:58,079
like there's an

1738
00:55:01,109 --> 00:55:00,559
agency of some kind maybe a paranormal

1739
00:55:04,630 --> 00:55:01,119
one

1740
00:55:07,190 --> 00:55:04,640
that very closely monitors

1741
00:55:08,710 --> 00:55:07,200
when stuff does get stuck here or maybe

1742
00:55:10,390 --> 00:55:08,720
it dissipates on its own

1743
00:55:12,710 --> 00:55:10,400
but we do have these visitations from

1744
00:55:13,190 --> 00:55:12,720
mib kind of people that suggest to me

1745
00:55:15,270 --> 00:55:13,200
that

1746
00:55:16,789 --> 00:55:15,280
they're very much like okay what did you

1747
00:55:18,150 --> 00:55:16,799
see and where is it

1748
00:55:19,589 --> 00:55:18,160
like what are you what are your

1749
00:55:19,990 --> 00:55:19,599
conclusions here are you going to be

1750
00:55:22,069 --> 00:55:20,000
talking

1751
00:55:24,470 --> 00:55:22,079
about this a lot you know that kind of

1752
00:55:26,309 --> 00:55:24,480
stuff it seems very heavily managed

1753
00:55:28,789 --> 00:55:26,319
the bigfoot world has a man in black

1754
00:55:31,109 --> 00:55:28,799
analog in the form of these two fellas

1755
00:55:32,390 --> 00:55:31,119
that claim to be from either the

1756
00:55:34,230 --> 00:55:32,400
department of the interior

1757
00:55:36,390 --> 00:55:34,240
or another government organization that

1758
00:55:37,670 --> 00:55:36,400
tend to show up it's the same two guys

1759
00:55:38,230 --> 00:55:37,680
that show up all over the country and

1760
00:55:41,109 --> 00:55:38,240
have been

1761
00:55:42,230 --> 00:55:41,119
for years one is a very large fellow

1762
00:55:44,950 --> 00:55:42,240
they describe him as

1763
00:55:45,589 --> 00:55:44,960
six foot nine or taller big biker

1764
00:55:48,789 --> 00:55:45,599
looking guy

1765
00:55:50,630 --> 00:55:48,799
in a flannel shirt and another guy in a

1766
00:55:52,630 --> 00:55:50,640
suit they tend to show up and

1767
00:55:54,950 --> 00:55:52,640
sort of act as the bigfoot world's men

1768
00:55:57,190 --> 00:55:54,960
in black i get into this in volume two

1769
00:55:58,069 --> 00:55:57,200
but there's a problem with evidence in

1770
00:56:00,549 --> 00:55:58,079
general

1771
00:56:02,230 --> 00:56:00,559
in that our best evidence for bigfoot

1772
00:56:02,950 --> 00:56:02,240
and it's very good if you look at the

1773
00:56:04,710 --> 00:56:02,960
footprints

1774
00:56:06,710 --> 00:56:04,720
especially with the work like jeff

1775
00:56:09,030 --> 00:56:06,720
meldrum has done

1776
00:56:10,150 --> 00:56:09,040
these are really really good casts of

1777
00:56:11,750 --> 00:56:10,160
footprints some of them

1778
00:56:12,950 --> 00:56:11,760
not all of them but some of them are

1779
00:56:14,549 --> 00:56:12,960
very very good and they show dermal

1780
00:56:15,109 --> 00:56:14,559
ridges and metatarsal breaks and all

1781
00:56:18,069 --> 00:56:15,119
this

1782
00:56:19,670 --> 00:56:18,079
anatomy that you know jeff meldrum as

1783
00:56:21,190 --> 00:56:19,680
someone who specializes in like

1784
00:56:22,870 --> 00:56:21,200
primate looking motion and primate foot

1785
00:56:24,390 --> 00:56:22,880
anatomy and so forth he can look at

1786
00:56:26,470 --> 00:56:24,400
these cats and say like yes

1787
00:56:27,510 --> 00:56:26,480
something alive left this footprint and

1788
00:56:29,750 --> 00:56:27,520
here's why

1789
00:56:31,190 --> 00:56:29,760
here's all these great details that you

1790
00:56:33,510 --> 00:56:31,200
know unless you're an expert on his

1791
00:56:37,109 --> 00:56:33,520
level you'd never be able to fake

1792
00:56:39,030 --> 00:56:37,119
but in terms of and i always

1793
00:56:40,870 --> 00:56:39,040
frame this in terms of saints relics

1794
00:56:42,789 --> 00:56:40,880
because it's just easier to understand

1795
00:56:44,309 --> 00:56:42,799
so if you have a fingernail or a piece

1796
00:56:44,789 --> 00:56:44,319
of hair from a saint that's a primary

1797
00:56:46,950 --> 00:56:44,799
relic

1798
00:56:47,829 --> 00:56:46,960
that came from the saints body if you

1799
00:56:50,710 --> 00:56:47,839
have you know

1800
00:56:52,069 --> 00:56:50,720
a piece of the saints prayer cloth or

1801
00:56:55,030 --> 00:56:52,079
something the saint touched

1802
00:56:56,950 --> 00:56:55,040
that's a secondary relic of a saint so

1803
00:56:57,990 --> 00:56:56,960
the best we have for bigfoot the best

1804
00:57:01,510 --> 00:56:58,000
evidence of these

1805
00:57:03,430 --> 00:57:01,520
casts and they're all secondary relics

1806
00:57:05,589 --> 00:57:03,440
any kind of primary relic we have from

1807
00:57:07,829 --> 00:57:05,599
bigfoot whether it's hair samples blood

1808
00:57:10,549 --> 00:57:07,839
samples all this dna evidence

1809
00:57:12,230 --> 00:57:10,559
always always always is contested never

1810
00:57:12,630 --> 00:57:12,240
is there one case where somebody has a

1811
00:57:14,470 --> 00:57:12,640
hair

1812
00:57:16,150 --> 00:57:14,480
that you can get experts to line up on

1813
00:57:17,829 --> 00:57:16,160
and say yes this is a hair from a

1814
00:57:18,870 --> 00:57:17,839
bigfoot you will get experts to line up

1815
00:57:20,630 --> 00:57:18,880
on both sides

1816
00:57:21,990 --> 00:57:20,640
yes this is something strange oh no this

1817
00:57:22,950 --> 00:57:22,000
is something you know perfectly

1818
00:57:25,829 --> 00:57:22,960
explainable

1819
00:57:26,630 --> 00:57:25,839
same with the dna evidence the dna tests

1820
00:57:29,109 --> 00:57:26,640
have been

1821
00:57:29,990 --> 00:57:29,119
all over the place the one that melba

1822
00:57:32,069 --> 00:57:30,000
ketchum did was

1823
00:57:33,990 --> 00:57:32,079
absolutely flawed if you look at other

1824
00:57:37,670 --> 00:57:34,000
dna experts

1825
00:57:40,309 --> 00:57:37,680
the test that brian sykes did in the uk

1826
00:57:42,789 --> 00:57:40,319
was problematic as well if you ask the

1827
00:57:44,549 --> 00:57:42,799
people who sent the samples and so forth

1828
00:57:46,549 --> 00:57:44,559
and a lot of people don't believe his

1829
00:57:48,710 --> 00:57:46,559
results again this is just this

1830
00:57:50,069 --> 00:57:48,720
mess of people lining up on both sides

1831
00:57:51,829 --> 00:57:50,079
expert and layman

1832
00:57:55,030 --> 00:57:51,839
saying you know this physical evidence

1833
00:57:57,990 --> 00:57:55,040
is real no it's not etcetera etcetera so

1834
00:57:59,829 --> 00:57:58,000
there's primary relics there's really

1835
00:58:01,349 --> 00:57:59,839
nothing that we can agree on

1836
00:58:02,950 --> 00:58:01,359
there's hairs out there that people say

1837
00:58:04,870 --> 00:58:02,960
yeah this is a bigfoot hair but no you

1838
00:58:06,230 --> 00:58:04,880
can't get experts to agree that

1839
00:58:07,990 --> 00:58:06,240
or at least agree that it you know it

1840
00:58:09,589 --> 00:58:08,000
actually came from a bigfoot the best

1841
00:58:11,270 --> 00:58:09,599
you might get is like yeah we don't know

1842
00:58:11,589 --> 00:58:11,280
what this is whatever this is we don't

1843
00:58:13,910 --> 00:58:11,599
know

1844
00:58:15,510 --> 00:58:13,920
what it is but that's a problem with

1845
00:58:16,230 --> 00:58:15,520
bigfoot evidence you know our best

1846
00:58:19,030 --> 00:58:16,240
evidence is

1847
00:58:20,710 --> 00:58:19,040
secondary realms i like the relics

1848
00:58:23,510 --> 00:58:20,720
analogy because

1849
00:58:25,750 --> 00:58:23,520
and i sometimes think that it is similar

1850
00:58:27,910 --> 00:58:25,760
to the placebo effect where

1851
00:58:29,670 --> 00:58:27,920
we have the ability subconsciously

1852
00:58:31,030 --> 00:58:29,680
probably to do all kinds of stuff but we

1853
00:58:33,109 --> 00:58:31,040
need to

1854
00:58:34,470 --> 00:58:33,119
put it on something else so you know you

1855
00:58:36,549 --> 00:58:34,480
take a pill and then

1856
00:58:37,990 --> 00:58:36,559
you're like oh that pill healed me when

1857
00:58:39,430 --> 00:58:38,000
really it was just a sugar pill

1858
00:58:41,589 --> 00:58:39,440
obviously we all know what the placebo

1859
00:58:43,190 --> 00:58:41,599
effect is but similarly

1860
00:58:45,430 --> 00:58:43,200
there could be artifacts where it's like

1861
00:58:46,710 --> 00:58:45,440
oh this is the spear that pierced

1862
00:58:48,950 --> 00:58:46,720
christ's side

1863
00:58:50,789 --> 00:58:48,960
and someone with a lot of religious

1864
00:58:52,630 --> 00:58:50,799
conviction could touch that

1865
00:58:55,030 --> 00:58:52,640
and then all of a sudden have a

1866
00:58:56,309 --> 00:58:55,040
spontaneous experience an ecstatic

1867
00:58:58,870 --> 00:58:56,319
experience or

1868
00:58:59,349 --> 00:58:58,880
have a healing happen or something like

1869
00:59:01,589 --> 00:58:59,359
that

1870
00:59:03,349 --> 00:59:01,599
and sometimes these artifacts do turn

1871
00:59:06,309 --> 00:59:03,359
out to be fraudulent

1872
00:59:07,990 --> 00:59:06,319
but yet they still have insane effects i

1873
00:59:08,549 --> 00:59:08,000
find that interesting i think it makes

1874
00:59:10,390 --> 00:59:08,559
it

1875
00:59:12,309 --> 00:59:10,400
i think that's a clue that the

1876
00:59:13,829 --> 00:59:12,319
consciousness of the individual is a key

1877
00:59:16,309 --> 00:59:13,839
component here

1878
00:59:17,750 --> 00:59:16,319
absolutely you know it's funny on at

1879
00:59:19,670 --> 00:59:17,760
least one of our other interviews

1880
00:59:22,150 --> 00:59:19,680
some commenters came in and were like

1881
00:59:24,710 --> 00:59:22,160
jungian archetypes this is silly

1882
00:59:26,789 --> 00:59:24,720
and honestly it's not that we're saying

1883
00:59:28,950 --> 00:59:26,799
this stuff is made up

1884
00:59:30,309 --> 00:59:28,960
but it can also be you know generated

1885
00:59:32,549 --> 00:59:30,319
internally

1886
00:59:34,230 --> 00:59:32,559
and also be real you know similarly i

1887
00:59:35,349 --> 00:59:34,240
got some pushback in one of my talks for

1888
00:59:37,829 --> 00:59:35,359
discussing

1889
00:59:38,470 --> 00:59:37,839
you know a lot of these bits of physical

1890
00:59:40,069 --> 00:59:38,480
evidence

1891
00:59:41,270 --> 00:59:40,079
and then saying well bigfoot might not

1892
00:59:42,630 --> 00:59:41,280
be a flesh and blood creature they're

1893
00:59:45,109 --> 00:59:42,640
like well how does it leave hair

1894
00:59:46,710 --> 00:59:45,119
and how does it leave blood and scat and

1895
00:59:48,230 --> 00:59:46,720
footprints and i said well if you

1896
00:59:49,990 --> 00:59:48,240
look at you know the parapsychological

1897
00:59:50,789 --> 00:59:50,000
literature i think we can all agree that

1898
00:59:53,510 --> 00:59:50,799
ghosts

1899
00:59:55,190 --> 00:59:53,520
are not tangible and physical yet if

1900
00:59:56,789 --> 00:59:55,200
ghosts do exist they apparently can

1901
00:59:58,309 --> 00:59:56,799
interact with the physical world just

1902
01:00:00,630 --> 00:59:58,319
fine they can leave behind

1903
01:00:01,910 --> 01:00:00,640
handprints and writing on walls and

1904
01:00:03,589 --> 01:00:01,920
slamming doors

1905
01:00:06,309 --> 01:00:03,599
similarly if you look at psy phenomena

1906
01:00:07,670 --> 01:00:06,319
that's entirely internally generated

1907
01:00:09,589 --> 01:00:07,680
but can also have an impact on the

1908
01:00:12,549 --> 01:00:09,599
physical world as well so i think that

1909
01:00:13,430 --> 01:00:12,559
people need to sort of i would encourage

1910
01:00:14,470 --> 01:00:13,440
people who are interested in these

1911
01:00:18,230 --> 01:00:14,480
topics to stop

1912
01:00:20,069 --> 01:00:18,240
thinking about things as this false

1913
01:00:21,990 --> 01:00:20,079
dichotomy of real or not real or

1914
01:00:24,630 --> 01:00:22,000
physical or you know non-physical

1915
01:00:26,230 --> 01:00:24,640
and i think that your very astute point

1916
01:00:28,390 --> 01:00:26,240
about comparing

1917
01:00:31,270 --> 01:00:28,400
the revelations that people have when

1918
01:00:33,750 --> 01:00:31,280
encountering relics of any sort of

1919
01:00:35,510 --> 01:00:33,760
numinous origin comparing that to the

1920
01:00:37,190 --> 01:00:35,520
placebo effect i think is very astute in

1921
01:00:39,910 --> 01:00:37,200
the in terms of the fact that

1922
01:00:41,750 --> 01:00:39,920
something about us plays a very strong

1923
01:00:43,270 --> 01:00:41,760
role in these encounters and if that so

1924
01:00:45,910 --> 01:00:43,280
happens to mean that inside of us

1925
01:00:46,630 --> 01:00:45,920
we each have a wild man waiting to get

1926
01:00:48,630 --> 01:00:46,640
out

1927
01:00:50,470 --> 01:00:48,640
and you know we project that into the

1928
01:00:52,789 --> 01:00:50,480
woods and that's what we end up seeing

1929
01:00:56,069 --> 01:00:52,799
maybe that's it i mean all i know is

1930
01:00:57,349 --> 01:00:56,079
that you know what is it now 70 years at

1931
01:00:59,030 --> 01:00:57,359
least in this country in terms of

1932
01:01:01,990 --> 01:00:59,040
popular culture

1933
01:01:02,549 --> 01:01:02,000
70 plus ish years of trying to prove

1934
01:01:04,789 --> 01:01:02,559
this thing

1935
01:01:07,190 --> 01:01:04,799
as a large hairy hominid really hasn't

1936
01:01:10,230 --> 01:01:07,200
gotten much of anywhere

1937
01:01:11,589 --> 01:01:10,240
yes well said and as we're kind of

1938
01:01:12,069 --> 01:01:11,599
getting to the end of the road here i

1939
01:01:14,069 --> 01:01:12,079
figured

1940
01:01:16,230 --> 01:01:14,079
maybe we could close this out by all

1941
01:01:19,109 --> 01:01:16,240
giving a favorite story

1942
01:01:21,030 --> 01:01:19,119
of some sort i would probably pull this

1943
01:01:22,470 --> 01:01:21,040
one from your short section on healing

1944
01:01:25,510 --> 01:01:22,480
and spirituality

1945
01:01:27,910 --> 01:01:25,520
i love this story it says uh

1946
01:01:28,950 --> 01:01:27,920
yakima indian fire guard told

1947
01:01:32,309 --> 01:01:28,960
investigator

1948
01:01:33,030 --> 01:01:32,319
w.j vogel that quote a large man with

1949
01:01:35,270 --> 01:01:33,040
red eyes

1950
01:01:37,190 --> 01:01:35,280
came to live with the tribe whenever any

1951
01:01:38,069 --> 01:01:37,200
of the indian people became sick he

1952
01:01:40,309 --> 01:01:38,079
would heal them

1953
01:01:41,349 --> 01:01:40,319
when the large hominid noticed his own

1954
01:01:43,349 --> 01:01:41,359
health failing

1955
01:01:45,510 --> 01:01:43,359
he asked the tribe to take him to a

1956
01:01:47,510 --> 01:01:45,520
specific location where he died

1957
01:01:48,710 --> 01:01:47,520
and a large flying object came down from

1958
01:01:51,270 --> 01:01:48,720
the skies

1959
01:01:52,069 --> 01:01:51,280
put his body on board and flew off into

1960
01:01:55,430 --> 01:01:52,079
the sky

1961
01:01:57,750 --> 01:01:55,440
i mean wow again what the hell that's a

1962
01:02:00,549 --> 01:01:57,760
a pretty fun one but do you guys have

1963
01:02:01,750 --> 01:02:00,559
personal favorites we haven't touched on

1964
01:02:03,589 --> 01:02:01,760
i kind of want to talk about eight

1965
01:02:04,470 --> 01:02:03,599
canyon but tim that's kind of your thing

1966
01:02:05,910 --> 01:02:04,480
if you want to

1967
01:02:07,670 --> 01:02:05,920
if you if you don't want to use that as

1968
01:02:09,670 --> 01:02:07,680
an example i'll i'll use a king and it's

1969
01:02:12,870 --> 01:02:09,680
go ahead you take eight

1970
01:02:13,510 --> 01:02:12,880
so for anyone who isn't aware ape canyon

1971
01:02:16,950 --> 01:02:13,520
is a

1972
01:02:18,710 --> 01:02:16,960
very famous encounter with bigfoot 1924

1973
01:02:20,470 --> 01:02:18,720
near mount st helens

1974
01:02:22,309 --> 01:02:20,480
the short version that you get and it

1975
01:02:23,670 --> 01:02:22,319
occurs in a lot of bigfoot literature

1976
01:02:26,710 --> 01:02:23,680
especially flesh and blood

1977
01:02:28,549 --> 01:02:26,720
literature is that beck

1978
01:02:30,630 --> 01:02:28,559
and several other minors were trapped in

1979
01:02:33,750 --> 01:02:30,640
this cabin

1980
01:02:35,190 --> 01:02:33,760
in the mountains and they were basically

1981
01:02:37,829 --> 01:02:35,200
assaulted

1982
01:02:39,430 --> 01:02:37,839
under siege by these large hairy

1983
01:02:40,710 --> 01:02:39,440
creatures that were throwing boulders at

1984
01:02:43,430 --> 01:02:40,720
the cabin

1985
01:02:44,710 --> 01:02:43,440
if you sort of unpack vex account it

1986
01:02:45,990 --> 01:02:44,720
seems like maybe it was just throwing

1987
01:02:47,190 --> 01:02:46,000
rocks at the cabin but

1988
01:02:49,109 --> 01:02:47,200
the other thing that's interesting is

1989
01:02:50,630 --> 01:02:49,119
that it's another classic example of

1990
01:02:52,470 --> 01:02:50,640
this weird washing that we see time and

1991
01:02:56,150 --> 01:02:52,480
again

1992
01:02:58,069 --> 01:02:56,160
so people tend to focus on that bigfoot

1993
01:02:59,270 --> 01:02:58,079
assault but what they don't talk about

1994
01:03:01,589 --> 01:02:59,280
is the fact that

1995
01:03:02,630 --> 01:03:01,599
the miners were led to their claim by a

1996
01:03:05,990 --> 01:03:02,640
white arrow

1997
01:03:09,510 --> 01:03:06,000
in the sky they don't talk about the

1998
01:03:12,150 --> 01:03:09,520
fact that among the sort of

1999
01:03:12,549 --> 01:03:12,160
spirit guides that they encountered one

2000
01:03:17,190 --> 01:03:12,559
was

2001
01:03:18,150 --> 01:03:17,200
a female entity that is not described

2002
01:03:20,150 --> 01:03:18,160
but is named

2003
01:03:22,309 --> 01:03:20,160
vander white so you have that lady in

2004
01:03:23,670 --> 01:03:22,319
white connection there as well

2005
01:03:25,829 --> 01:03:23,680
which they actually ended up naming the

2006
01:03:28,870 --> 01:03:25,839
mining claim after the vander white

2007
01:03:30,390 --> 01:03:28,880
mining claim but even curiouser people

2008
01:03:31,109 --> 01:03:30,400
don't tend to talk about that just

2009
01:03:34,470 --> 01:03:31,119
before

2010
01:03:36,150 --> 01:03:34,480
their attack from the bigfoot that

2011
01:03:38,069 --> 01:03:36,160
several of the miners actually saw a

2012
01:03:39,829 --> 01:03:38,079
pair of footprints

2013
01:03:41,750 --> 01:03:39,839
pair of large bigfoot footprints on a

2014
01:03:43,829 --> 01:03:41,760
sandbar that was

2015
01:03:44,789 --> 01:03:43,839
what was it a hundred feet from the

2016
01:03:46,470 --> 01:03:44,799
nearest shore

2017
01:03:47,750 --> 01:03:46,480
i think they said it was at least i

2018
01:03:49,029 --> 01:03:47,760
think it was in the middle of an acre

2019
01:03:51,190 --> 01:03:49,039
wide sandbar they said

2020
01:03:52,390 --> 01:03:51,200
so a huge sample and the quote was that

2021
01:03:53,589 --> 01:03:52,400
you know it almost looked as if

2022
01:03:56,309 --> 01:03:53,599
something dropped something

2023
01:03:58,150 --> 01:03:56,319
down and then picked it back up and then

2024
01:03:59,510 --> 01:03:58,160
you know people don't tend to address

2025
01:04:01,190 --> 01:03:59,520
the fact that

2026
01:04:02,710 --> 01:04:01,200
there were reports that occurred during

2027
01:04:04,069 --> 01:04:02,720
the ape canyon sighting as well

2028
01:04:05,750 --> 01:04:04,079
literally a pencil appeared in

2029
01:04:07,589 --> 01:04:05,760
fredbeck's hand

2030
01:04:08,950 --> 01:04:07,599
now some people have liked to sort of

2031
01:04:10,870 --> 01:04:08,960
criticize fredbeck

2032
01:04:12,150 --> 01:04:10,880
because even though he is the primary

2033
01:04:14,870 --> 01:04:12,160
witness

2034
01:04:16,710 --> 01:04:14,880
of the encounter he had a long-standing

2035
01:04:19,510 --> 01:04:16,720
history of being involved and

2036
01:04:20,710 --> 01:04:19,520
being interested in the paranormal but

2037
01:04:21,589 --> 01:04:20,720
at the same time if you believe

2038
01:04:23,349 --> 01:04:21,599
witnesses you've got to believe

2039
01:04:26,390 --> 01:04:23,359
witnesses and fredbeck

2040
01:04:27,029 --> 01:04:26,400
never once assumed that these were giant

2041
01:04:28,150 --> 01:04:27,039
monkey men

2042
01:04:30,069 --> 01:04:28,160
he always assumed that these were

2043
01:04:33,510 --> 01:04:30,079
somehow some type

2044
01:04:35,670 --> 01:04:33,520
of entity that had one foot in our world

2045
01:04:37,990 --> 01:04:35,680
and one foot in the other world as well

2046
01:04:39,510 --> 01:04:38,000
it's amazing to me that this eight

2047
01:04:42,150 --> 01:04:39,520
canyon story gets so

2048
01:04:43,990 --> 01:04:42,160
sanitized and that there's all this real

2049
01:04:45,349 --> 01:04:44,000
absolute high strangeness that surrounds

2050
01:04:46,710 --> 01:04:45,359
the encounter that people just don't

2051
01:04:48,870 --> 01:04:46,720
tend to talk about because it doesn't

2052
01:04:50,710 --> 01:04:48,880
fit their pre-existing hypothesis that

2053
01:04:53,109 --> 01:04:50,720
we're dealing with a large relic hairy

2054
01:04:53,670 --> 01:04:53,119
hominid so i have a real soft spot let's

2055
01:04:56,250 --> 01:04:53,680
say

2056
01:04:57,510 --> 01:04:56,260
that i nurture for the a canyon case

2057
01:04:59,510 --> 01:04:57,520
[Music]

2058
01:05:01,270 --> 01:04:59,520
yeah i'm really glad that was the one

2059
01:05:03,750 --> 01:05:01,280
you chose because that is

2060
01:05:05,589 --> 01:05:03,760
one of the rare stories you could bring

2061
01:05:07,029 --> 01:05:05,599
up where i actually have some context

2062
01:05:08,069 --> 01:05:07,039
because when i was up there in

2063
01:05:09,990 --> 01:05:08,079
washington

2064
01:05:12,470 --> 01:05:10,000
you know ape canyon butts up against

2065
01:05:15,750 --> 01:05:12,480
what they call ape cave which is a

2066
01:05:16,950 --> 01:05:15,760
12 000 foot long lava tube i think it's

2067
01:05:19,670 --> 01:05:16,960
the largest

2068
01:05:20,789 --> 01:05:19,680
known lava tube in the united states and

2069
01:05:23,190 --> 01:05:20,799
i have walked it

2070
01:05:25,109 --> 01:05:23,200
nice and it is the longest underground

2071
01:05:26,789 --> 01:05:25,119
walk i've ever had actually i think it's

2072
01:05:27,510 --> 01:05:26,799
the only underground walk i've ever

2073
01:05:29,510 --> 01:05:27,520
taken but

2074
01:05:31,990 --> 01:05:29,520
the whole time you can see these little

2075
01:05:34,390 --> 01:05:32,000
ridges and it's like i could almost see

2076
01:05:34,710 --> 01:05:34,400
in my mind's eye some bigfoot staring at

2077
01:05:36,950 --> 01:05:34,720
me

2078
01:05:38,549 --> 01:05:36,960
it was a pretty cool experience but i

2079
01:05:39,910 --> 01:05:38,559
didn't know that added context about the

2080
01:05:41,589 --> 01:05:39,920
story either i only really knew about

2081
01:05:43,589 --> 01:05:41,599
them throwing the rocks against the

2082
01:05:45,990 --> 01:05:43,599
cabin and stuff like that so

2083
01:05:47,430 --> 01:05:46,000
yeah that is definitely interesting and

2084
01:05:50,789 --> 01:05:47,440
it is a place where

2085
01:05:53,270 --> 01:05:50,799
it does seem like a perfect setting

2086
01:05:54,710 --> 01:05:53,280
for some kind of paranormal experience

2087
01:05:55,829 --> 01:05:54,720
of course now there's so many people

2088
01:05:58,150 --> 01:05:55,839
going up and down

2089
01:05:58,870 --> 01:05:58,160
the cave that you know it's not quite

2090
01:06:00,230 --> 01:05:58,880
enough to

2091
01:06:01,430 --> 01:06:00,240
really see anything or have an

2092
01:06:02,309 --> 01:06:01,440
experience like that but it could be a

2093
01:06:04,150 --> 01:06:02,319
window area

2094
01:06:05,670 --> 01:06:04,160
i definitely like that story but tim

2095
01:06:07,910 --> 01:06:05,680
what you got

2096
01:06:08,789 --> 01:06:07,920
well it's so hard to pick one story i

2097
01:06:10,549 --> 01:06:08,799
mean

2098
01:06:12,150 --> 01:06:10,559
the opening story is a favorite

2099
01:06:14,230 --> 01:06:12,160
obviously the one we talked about

2100
01:06:15,910 --> 01:06:14,240
the fayette county pennsylvania story we

2101
01:06:18,870 --> 01:06:15,920
talked about the beginning

2102
01:06:20,549 --> 01:06:18,880
and in general one of my favorite

2103
01:06:22,710 --> 01:06:20,559
sections to write was

2104
01:06:24,309 --> 01:06:22,720
the christmas time of the wild men

2105
01:06:27,029 --> 01:06:24,319
section where i talk about

2106
01:06:28,710 --> 01:06:27,039
all of the correlations between the wild

2107
01:06:30,870 --> 01:06:28,720
man phenomenon these various christmas

2108
01:06:34,309 --> 01:06:30,880
wild men we have from krampus to

2109
01:06:36,069 --> 01:06:34,319
belsnickel and so forth but if i'm just

2110
01:06:38,390 --> 01:06:36,079
going to talk about one story

2111
01:06:39,990 --> 01:06:38,400
there was one that was pretty incredible

2112
01:06:43,029 --> 01:06:40,000
it was a guy named rick

2113
01:06:45,990 --> 01:06:43,039
who he appeared on a podcast called the

2114
01:06:47,589 --> 01:06:46,000
cryptid brothers investigation

2115
01:06:49,190 --> 01:06:47,599
his encounter took place in woodville

2116
01:06:52,069 --> 01:06:49,200
texas in 1978

2117
01:06:53,430 --> 01:06:52,079
he was driving about 2 30 in the morning

2118
01:06:54,470 --> 01:06:53,440
he comes up over a hill and he hits

2119
01:06:56,230 --> 01:06:54,480
something

2120
01:06:57,910 --> 01:06:56,240
and he just spun his truck around

2121
01:06:59,510 --> 01:06:57,920
whatever it was so big it actually like

2122
01:07:01,029 --> 01:06:59,520
spun his pickup truck around

2123
01:07:03,270 --> 01:07:01,039
he gets out of the truck and he thinks

2124
01:07:05,029 --> 01:07:03,280
it's somebody in a halloween costume

2125
01:07:06,870 --> 01:07:05,039
and he's thinking what have i done and

2126
01:07:08,390 --> 01:07:06,880
and this

2127
01:07:09,829 --> 01:07:08,400
thing that he thinks is the person at

2128
01:07:11,349 --> 01:07:09,839
first is just you know sitting on the

2129
01:07:12,230 --> 01:07:11,359
roadside kind of moaning i think he said

2130
01:07:15,430 --> 01:07:12,240
it had part of his

2131
01:07:15,910 --> 01:07:15,440
grill stuck in its leg he ends up

2132
01:07:19,430 --> 01:07:15,920
walking

2133
01:07:22,390 --> 01:07:19,440
up to it and figuring out that it's this

2134
01:07:25,750 --> 01:07:22,400
bigfoot creature it's a female

2135
01:07:27,750 --> 01:07:25,760
and he ends up using his belt to put a

2136
01:07:30,069 --> 01:07:27,760
tourniquet on its leg and

2137
01:07:31,670 --> 01:07:30,079
you know motions that it's going to hurt

2138
01:07:33,670 --> 01:07:31,680
to take this piece of the

2139
01:07:34,789 --> 01:07:33,680
truck grill out of its leg and

2140
01:07:36,150 --> 01:07:34,799
apparently does and

2141
01:07:37,589 --> 01:07:36,160
he says there's a male bigfoot that

2142
01:07:38,390 --> 01:07:37,599
comes up behind him that thinks he's

2143
01:07:41,190 --> 01:07:38,400
hurting her and

2144
01:07:43,829 --> 01:07:41,200
she warns the male off and somehow in

2145
01:07:46,069 --> 01:07:43,839
bigfoot language tells him it's okay

2146
01:07:47,670 --> 01:07:46,079
and while he's doing this while he's

2147
01:07:49,029 --> 01:07:47,680
supposedly helping this bigfoot creature

2148
01:07:49,750 --> 01:07:49,039
he's a catholic he's got a crucifix

2149
01:07:52,710 --> 01:07:49,760
around his neck

2150
01:07:54,710 --> 01:07:52,720
and she grabs this crucifix and says

2151
01:07:56,549 --> 01:07:54,720
gulaka gulaka

2152
01:07:57,829 --> 01:07:56,559
and he somehow gets the impression that

2153
01:07:59,829 --> 01:07:57,839
she wants it

2154
01:08:01,910 --> 01:07:59,839
so he said he takes it off and he has

2155
01:08:03,349 --> 01:08:01,920
that and a chain and like another chain

2156
01:08:04,069 --> 01:08:03,359
he puts these two chains together to

2157
01:08:06,069 --> 01:08:04,079
make it

2158
01:08:07,430 --> 01:08:06,079
big enough to put over the bigfoot's

2159
01:08:09,109 --> 01:08:07,440
head and

2160
01:08:10,549 --> 01:08:09,119
you know drapes this crucifix over her

2161
01:08:12,470 --> 01:08:10,559
head and she holds it and points to the

2162
01:08:14,309 --> 01:08:12,480
sky and says gulaka gulakka and he says

2163
01:08:17,269 --> 01:08:14,319
no no no jesus christ

2164
01:08:18,390 --> 01:08:17,279
and he said i'm scared now i give her

2165
01:08:19,749 --> 01:08:18,400
anything she wants

2166
01:08:22,149 --> 01:08:19,759
and she was thrilled to have that but

2167
01:08:23,910 --> 01:08:22,159
she identified it

2168
01:08:26,390 --> 01:08:23,920
i don't know what that means it's just

2169
01:08:28,309 --> 01:08:26,400
this wonderful incredible story of this

2170
01:08:29,669 --> 01:08:28,319
guy who has this encounter with this

2171
01:08:31,910 --> 01:08:29,679
creature and ends up giving it

2172
01:08:34,070 --> 01:08:31,920
this crucifix from around his neck and

2173
01:08:36,470 --> 01:08:34,080
drapes it on her neck

2174
01:08:38,630 --> 01:08:36,480
you know it's pretty outrageous but it's

2175
01:08:41,749 --> 01:08:38,640
a really really neat story

2176
01:08:43,990 --> 01:08:41,759
yeah that is a great one too i love it

2177
01:08:45,430 --> 01:08:44,000
well guys this has been a fun time the

2178
01:08:47,430 --> 01:08:45,440
book is excellent

2179
01:08:48,550 --> 01:08:47,440
of course i've come to expect nothing

2180
01:08:51,269 --> 01:08:48,560
less from josh

2181
01:08:51,990 --> 01:08:51,279
and this is just volume one what can you

2182
01:08:54,070 --> 01:08:52,000
tell the people

2183
01:08:55,910 --> 01:08:54,080
about picking it up and what they should

2184
01:08:58,070 --> 01:08:55,920
know about volume two

2185
01:09:00,149 --> 01:08:58,080
volume two will hopefully be here before

2186
01:09:01,590 --> 01:09:00,159
the end of 2020 that's the goal

2187
01:09:03,189 --> 01:09:01,600
it looks like we're going to make that

2188
01:09:05,349 --> 01:09:03,199
right now but

2189
01:09:06,550 --> 01:09:05,359
you know so many things happened with

2190
01:09:08,390 --> 01:09:06,560
volume one that kind of

2191
01:09:09,590 --> 01:09:08,400
pushed the release date on us that i'm

2192
01:09:11,110 --> 01:09:09,600
cautious

2193
01:09:13,030 --> 01:09:11,120
about saying it'll definitely be here

2194
01:09:15,910 --> 01:09:13,040
but let's say i'm cautiously optimistic

2195
01:09:16,870 --> 01:09:15,920
that we will make that christmas time

2196
01:09:20,870 --> 01:09:16,880
release date

2197
01:09:22,789 --> 01:09:20,880
for volume two so volume one we called

2198
01:09:24,070 --> 01:09:22,799
folklore volume two we called evidence

2199
01:09:25,590 --> 01:09:24,080
we'd like to say that there's plenty of

2200
01:09:26,870 --> 01:09:25,600
focular in volume two and plenty of

2201
01:09:27,590 --> 01:09:26,880
evidence in volume one those are just

2202
01:09:30,390 --> 01:09:27,600
sort of

2203
01:09:32,309 --> 01:09:30,400
signifiers we gave there's more kind of

2204
01:09:33,430 --> 01:09:32,319
direct evidence in volume two and more

2205
01:09:35,510 --> 01:09:33,440
focal and by

2206
01:09:39,269 --> 01:09:35,520
one but there's plenty of boats in each

2207
01:09:40,950 --> 01:09:39,279
so you can find volume one on amazon

2208
01:09:43,030 --> 01:09:40,960
either look up where the footprints end

2209
01:09:45,430 --> 01:09:43,040
or joshua cutchen or timothy renner

2210
01:09:47,030 --> 01:09:45,440
it should get it to you and i'm sure at

2211
01:09:48,550 --> 01:09:47,040
this point you can also order it in

2212
01:09:50,550 --> 01:09:48,560
to your local bookstore if you prefer

2213
01:09:53,030 --> 01:09:50,560
that very cool

2214
01:09:54,630 --> 01:09:53,040
awesome and if the people wanted to

2215
01:09:56,310 --> 01:09:54,640
follow up with you guys tell them where

2216
01:09:59,470 --> 01:09:56,320
to find you in this vast

2217
01:10:00,870 --> 01:09:59,480
internet thing you can find me at

2218
01:10:03,910 --> 01:10:00,880
joshuacutchin.com

2219
01:10:05,189 --> 01:10:03,920
hopefully now that now that this book is

2220
01:10:07,430 --> 01:10:05,199
getting out of the way a little bit i'll

2221
01:10:10,070 --> 01:10:07,440
be making more frequent appearances

2222
01:10:11,590 --> 01:10:10,080
over on where to the road go.com which

2223
01:10:13,669 --> 01:10:11,600
i've done some shows with

2224
01:10:15,990 --> 01:10:13,679
tim on that podcast as well in the past

2225
01:10:19,030 --> 01:10:16,000
and hope to incorporate that more into

2226
01:10:21,270 --> 01:10:19,040
life as we move forward you find me at

2227
01:10:23,189 --> 01:10:21,280
strange familiars.com that's my podcast

2228
01:10:24,470 --> 01:10:23,199
but all that contact information goes

2229
01:10:25,830 --> 01:10:24,480
directly to me

2230
01:10:27,430 --> 01:10:25,840
so if you want to get in touch with me

2231
01:10:28,830 --> 01:10:27,440
i'm there if you want to hear my podcast

2232
01:10:32,149 --> 01:10:28,840
that's there as well

2233
01:10:34,790 --> 01:10:32,159
strangefamiliars.com boom awesome well

2234
01:10:35,990 --> 01:10:34,800
thank you guys both for your time again

2235
01:10:37,669 --> 01:10:36,000
really enjoyed the book

2236
01:10:39,270 --> 01:10:37,679
and it's a beautiful thing to get to

2237
01:10:41,189 --> 01:10:39,280
decide what you

2238
01:10:42,310 --> 01:10:41,199
find important and what you want to do

2239
01:10:44,470 --> 01:10:42,320
in this life so

2240
01:10:46,390 --> 01:10:44,480
kudos to both you and keep doing what

2241
01:10:50,630 --> 01:10:46,400
you do take care out there

2242
01:10:57,510 --> 01:10:53,830
the power of christ compels you people

2243
01:11:00,390 --> 01:10:57,520
three is the magic number joshua cutchen

2244
01:11:02,149 --> 01:11:00,400
timothy renner what better guests for a

2245
01:11:05,510 --> 01:11:02,159
squatch cast

2246
01:11:09,030 --> 01:11:05,520
viruses come and go but cryptids

2247
01:11:10,950 --> 01:11:09,040
are always there people

2248
01:11:12,950 --> 01:11:10,960
but i see any new work from joshua

2249
01:11:14,870 --> 01:11:12,960
kutchen and i'm jumping in on it i don't

2250
01:11:16,630 --> 01:11:14,880
care if western society is walking

2251
01:11:19,750 --> 01:11:16,640
itself off a cliff

2252
01:11:21,110 --> 01:11:19,760
i kid i kid but i absolutely think

2253
01:11:24,310 --> 01:11:21,120
cryptids are real

2254
01:11:27,350 --> 01:11:24,320
and that they are a clue to how reality

2255
01:11:28,390 --> 01:11:27,360
is structured if your model for reality

2256
01:11:31,110 --> 01:11:28,400
cannot handle

2257
01:11:32,229 --> 01:11:31,120
mothman and dogmen and fairies and

2258
01:11:34,709 --> 01:11:32,239
bigfoot

2259
01:11:35,910 --> 01:11:34,719
well get another model because people

2260
01:11:39,189 --> 01:11:35,920
are interacting

2261
01:11:41,270 --> 01:11:39,199
with something is it some rogue coder

2262
01:11:42,630 --> 01:11:41,280
[\h__\h] with the simulation by adding

2263
01:11:44,950 --> 01:11:42,640
strange creatures

2264
01:11:47,270 --> 01:11:44,960
are we in some planetary zoo where we

2265
01:11:48,950 --> 01:11:47,280
occasionally see the zookeepers venture

2266
01:11:51,189 --> 01:11:48,960
into the cage

2267
01:11:53,430 --> 01:11:51,199
could our weird thoughts and dreams

2268
01:11:56,790 --> 01:11:53,440
become physical manifestations

2269
01:11:59,430 --> 01:11:56,800
even if they're brief these are big

2270
01:12:01,830 --> 01:11:59,440
questions and they are about much more

2271
01:12:03,350 --> 01:12:01,840
than a monkey man in the woods as josh

2272
01:12:05,669 --> 01:12:03,360
might say

2273
01:12:06,630 --> 01:12:05,679
so i do think this kind of research is

2274
01:12:08,630 --> 01:12:06,640
profound

2275
01:12:10,870 --> 01:12:08,640
and also timeless because these

2276
01:12:14,229 --> 01:12:10,880
mysteries will long outlive

2277
01:12:16,470 --> 01:12:14,239
bill gates or donald trump or jeffrey

2278
01:12:19,510 --> 01:12:16,480
epstein for that matter

2279
01:12:20,310 --> 01:12:19,520
but i loved it i needed it and i only

2280
01:12:21,910 --> 01:12:20,320
want more

2281
01:12:23,350 --> 01:12:21,920
i hope you feel the same and if you only

2282
01:12:24,390 --> 01:12:23,360
heard the first free hour of the show i

2283
01:12:26,310 --> 01:12:24,400
hope you're compelled

2284
01:12:27,510 --> 01:12:26,320
to sign up for the higher side chats

2285
01:12:29,830 --> 01:12:27,520
plus

2286
01:12:31,270 --> 01:12:29,840
you're only hearing half the show every

2287
01:12:32,310 --> 01:12:31,280
week if you're listening to the free

2288
01:12:34,070 --> 01:12:32,320
show

2289
01:12:36,950 --> 01:12:34,080
it is how i pay the bills but more

2290
01:12:39,669 --> 01:12:36,960
importantly it's more conspira

2291
01:12:40,870 --> 01:12:39,679
info pero attainment for your very

2292
01:12:43,189 --> 01:12:40,880
hungry brain

2293
01:12:44,709 --> 01:12:43,199
which has to be getting tired of the

2294
01:12:47,910 --> 01:12:44,719
beat of the same

2295
01:12:49,430 --> 01:12:47,920
five drums all throughout this chaotic

2296
01:12:51,910 --> 01:12:49,440
year

2297
01:12:52,470 --> 01:12:51,920
in today's plus show we talked about

2298
01:12:55,990 --> 01:12:52,480
thoughts

2299
01:12:56,630 --> 01:12:56,000
the imaginal and realness feeding unseen

2300
01:13:00,070 --> 01:12:56,640
forces

2301
01:13:02,950 --> 01:13:00,080
sacrifice and spiritual bargains gifting

2302
01:13:04,070 --> 01:13:02,960
offering an intention bigfoot in the

2303
01:13:06,310 --> 01:13:04,080
grimoires

2304
01:13:07,510 --> 01:13:06,320
i absolutely think it's possible that

2305
01:13:10,470 --> 01:13:07,520
cryptids are just

2306
01:13:11,590 --> 01:13:10,480
ritual manifestations that got out of

2307
01:13:13,750 --> 01:13:11,600
the circle

2308
01:13:16,950 --> 01:13:13,760
or things that jumped through a

2309
01:13:19,110 --> 01:13:16,960
summoning that wasn't properly closed

2310
01:13:20,870 --> 01:13:19,120
i'm all into that we talked about

2311
01:13:24,470 --> 01:13:20,880
bigfoot and the woman

2312
01:13:27,830 --> 01:13:24,480
in white bigfoot logic and intelligence

2313
01:13:32,229 --> 01:13:27,840
telepathic bigfoot messages and the ufo

2314
01:13:34,149 --> 01:13:32,239
bigfoot overlap lots of fun stuff

2315
01:13:37,669 --> 01:13:34,159
and of course stories which are my

2316
01:13:39,669 --> 01:13:37,679
favorite part of these kinds of episodes

2317
01:13:41,669 --> 01:13:39,679
and the book obviously has way more than

2318
01:13:44,229 --> 01:13:41,679
we could ever talk about

2319
01:13:45,350 --> 01:13:44,239
but subscribe to the paid second hour

2320
01:13:47,350 --> 01:13:45,360
because you like it

2321
01:13:48,630 --> 01:13:47,360
and you want to double your experience

2322
01:13:51,750 --> 01:13:48,640
double your fun

2323
01:13:52,709 --> 01:13:51,760
if for no other reason but where the

2324
01:13:55,350 --> 01:13:52,719
footprints end

2325
01:13:56,950 --> 01:13:55,360
is such a great title for this book and

2326
01:14:00,229 --> 01:13:56,960
i was very happy to have them

2327
01:14:04,229 --> 01:14:00,239
on the next show is also with two guests

2328
01:14:07,110 --> 01:14:04,239
but for the people who don't like

2329
01:14:09,350 --> 01:14:07,120
racial history and that kind of stuff

2330
01:14:11,910 --> 01:14:09,360
they're not gonna like that episode

2331
01:14:13,189 --> 01:14:11,920
but we're gonna get crazy after that i'm

2332
01:14:15,910 --> 01:14:13,199
thinking

2333
01:14:17,669 --> 01:14:15,920
i really liked bruce fenton i really

2334
01:14:19,750 --> 01:14:17,679
liked today

2335
01:14:22,390 --> 01:14:19,760
and i just want to get back to being all

2336
01:14:24,149 --> 01:14:22,400
over the map

2337
01:14:26,149 --> 01:14:24,159
and i think once we get through a couple

2338
01:14:27,110 --> 01:14:26,159
i have recorded we got just the guests

2339
01:14:29,669 --> 01:14:27,120
on the schedule

2340
01:14:30,470 --> 01:14:29,679
to do that and i guess i'm getting out

2341
01:14:32,790 --> 01:14:30,480
of here

2342
01:14:35,350 --> 01:14:32,800
i hope you're all staying sane and being

2343
01:14:36,950 --> 01:14:35,360
your best selves

2344
01:14:39,430 --> 01:14:36,960
i declare this meeting of the midnight

2345
01:14:41,750 --> 01:14:39,440
society closed i've done my part

2346
01:14:44,229 --> 01:14:41,760
your move cryptid hunters mib mib-like

2347
01:14:45,669 --> 01:14:44,239
agents and secret keepers of the cult of

2348
01:14:54,790 --> 01:14:45,679
squatch

2349
01:14:57,830 --> 01:14:54,800
your [\h__\h] with

2350
01:15:01,990 --> 01:14:57,840
light in my eyes

2351
01:15:05,830 --> 01:15:02,000
and then realized it was dark

2352
01:15:14,390 --> 01:15:10,070
it was light coming down

2353
01:15:20,390 --> 01:15:14,400
from the sky i don't know

2354
01:15:20,400 --> 01:15:25,820
must be those strangers that

2355
01:15:53,170 --> 01:15:37,270
[Music]

2356
01:15:54,950 --> 01:15:53,180
mr spaceman

2357
01:15:58,950 --> 01:15:54,960
[Music]

2358
01:16:02,500 --> 01:15:58,960
won't you please take me along

2359
01:16:04,830 --> 01:16:02,510
i won't do anything wrong

2360
01:16:06,350 --> 01:16:04,840
[Music]

2361
01:16:09,350 --> 01:16:06,360
hey

2362
01:16:12,709 --> 01:16:09,360
spaceman

2363
01:16:17,990 --> 01:16:12,719
won't you please take me along

2364
01:16:25,030 --> 01:16:21,510
woke up this morning i was

2365
01:16:28,320 --> 01:16:25,040
feeling quite weird i had

2366
01:16:33,350 --> 01:16:28,330
flies in my beard my

2367
01:16:37,030 --> 01:16:33,360
[Music]

2368
01:16:41,270 --> 01:16:37,040
my toothpaste they'd written my

2369
01:16:49,030 --> 01:16:41,280
name said so long

2370
01:16:52,709 --> 01:16:49,040
we'll see you up again

2371
01:17:00,830 --> 01:16:56,709
won't you please take me along

2372
01:17:05,440 --> 01:17:00,840
i won't do anything wrong

2373
01:17:07,110 --> 01:17:05,450
hey mr spaceman

2374
01:17:17,910 --> 01:17:07,120
[Music]

2375
01:17:25,590 --> 01:17:21,510
mr spaceman

2376
01:17:31,530 --> 01:17:25,600
won't you please take me along

2377
01:17:34,130 --> 01:17:31,540
i won't do anything wrong

2378
01:17:34,720 --> 01:17:34,140
[Music]

2379
01:17:43,270 --> 01:17:34,730
[Applause]

2380
01:17:43,280 --> 01:17:47,350
won't you please

2381
01:17:47,360 --> 01:17:56,830
take me along the high